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Spyderco Warning

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by ugaarguy, Feb 1, 2014.

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  1. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    If you're considering a Spyderco folder proceed with extreme caution. The following are the serious issues I've recently had.

    Strike One: I bought a NIB Para Military 2 from them late last year and one of the screws had fallen out of the knife in transit. They wanted me to pay for shipping to them AND enclose a check for $6 for return shipping in case they determined it wasn't a warranty issue. I had to call them on the phone, leave a message with the receptionist, and wait for Jack Botbyl, a supervisor, to call me back. He did call me back the same day, and I gave him the same explanation I'd emailed to them, which "Mary" in customer support responded to and told there were no exceptions on shipping. At first he tried to jerk me around by telling me they had no control of the knife after they sent it to the retailer. I told him that the retailer, Knife Center of the Internet, had already offered me a refund (they couldn't replace it because Spyderco hasn't figured out how to ramp up production on a knife retailers sell out of within hours of offering for sale each small batch they get from Spyderco). I also told him that I didn'y think KCOI would be happy t have Spyderco accusing them of messing with product before sending it to customers. They did fix it free of charge, but with a turn around time of just over a month. That's totally unacceptable for a knife that price.

    The PM2 noted above came back from Spyderco bone dry. I took it apart and dry film lubed everything with paraffin wax, and it was fine. While I was at I figured it would be a good time take down all my knives to check and lube the internals. My Spyderco Superleaf was perfect, and I noticed that the liners were highly polished just like on the PM2. However,

    Strike Two: The Spyderco Chaparral that I've owned for a year and a half, and the Spyderco Cat I've had for 10 months were not so kind to me. There was corrosion on handle scale side of the liners on both knives. The scales on both knives were finished in a matte bead blast, which is a horrible choice of finish in terms of countering corrosion. The more expensive Chaparral had worse corrosion than the Cat, but that's probably because the Cat is about six months newer. Thankfully I could (and did) fix this myself by scrubbing the corrosion off, polishing the liners, and then coating them in a film of paraffin for good measure. I was only slightly annoyed by this on the Cat since that knife sells for $40 - $50 online (and I got mine on a weekly deal for $30). However, the Chaparral sells for over $100 even from online discount houses. Poorly finished liners with no corrosion inhibiting coating is once again unacceptable for knife that cost this much.

    Strike Three: I traded fellow THR moderator John Shirley some things I no longer use for a current production Native 5 that he'd carried for a few days before going back to his preferred Manix 2 Lightweight. I've had that knife for a few weeks now. Earlier this week I noticed that clip was starting to wobble, so I tried to tighten it with my Benchmade Blue Box tool kit, which is the same tool kit I use on every other folding knife I own. No dice. All three clip screws are spinning now. I know John didn't do anything to it, so this one is going back to Spyderco. I'm paying the shipping to them since I'm not the original owner. We shall see how long this repair takes, and see if they charge me for return shipping. Regardless of shipping charges and repair turnaround time, this is (once again), absolutely, totally, unacceptable.

    The trend I've noticed is that I've not had a single problem with any Spyderco that was made in Japan. The first two US Made and Taiwan made Spyderco folders I've owned have failed miserably. Spyderco would be wise to find out what G. Sakai (their contract manufacturer in Seki City, Japan) does and implement everything Sakai does Spyderco's contract plant in Taichung, Taiwain; and in their own plant in Golden, Colorado.

    However, given the problems I've listed above I'm not buying another Spyderco product until after I have a serious conversation with Sal Glesser. He'll either respond to the email I'm going send him with the text of this thread copied into it, or he'll see me at Blade in Atlanta in June.
     
  2. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Also post on the Spyderco forum if he does not answer your Email. Sal has been known to repond there before.
     
  3. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not going to sign up at the Spyderco forum just to air my dirty laundry. However, I wanted our members here at THR to be aware that Spyderco is in a period of serious QA / QC problems at their USA and Taiwan plants.
     
  4. Valkman

    Valkman Member

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    That's too bad to hear about this kind of QC screwups. Spyderco has never been my choice in knives except for the Rescue in my truck but any major company would be wise not to blow off these complaints and find out what's going on. You can't be the only one.
     
  5. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    It really pains me because their tall, full flat ground blades with the finger choil are my favorite designs from any manufacturer. However, the design doesn't matter if they don't execute it. It's extremely frustrating for me because I want the new 2nd gen G10 handle Manix 2 they just released with the FFG blade. However, it's made in their Golden, CO plant and I'm not risking $100+ on one.

    Benchmade is making another run of the Axis Stryker and Mini-Stryker this year. An original Mini Stryker liner lock was my first higher end knife back when I was a teenager. I know I'll be buying either the full size or the mini when they're available.
     
  6. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    That's a shame... fortunately since I've got no knife money to spare, the Spyderco I carry every day from six years ago has no such issues. :D
     
  7. 9mmforMe

    9mmforMe Member

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    Totally sucks...advice well taken though. I know that damaged gear really sucks in any way, and then when its source of damage is from the production organization and they are being less than professional that is even more frustrating! I feel your pain in a general manner tonight, brother, I lost my new Buck 721 and I don't have anyone to blame but myself (auto-a$$kick).
    Hang in there buddy.
     
  8. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks 9mm. I still have plenty of other knives with working pocket clips, including a $6 Chinese made lock back folding box cutter / utility knife from Harbor Freight. Yep, Harbor Freight sells a $6 Chinese made pot metal handle utility knife and they can still get the pocket clip screwed on properly. Yet, the company that popularized the pocket clip on folding knives can't seem to properly screw one onto a $100+ knife with steel lined G10 handles. :fire:
     
  9. 9mmforMe

    9mmforMe Member

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    I'm with ya!! :cuss:
     
  10. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    Interesting. My first Spyderco knife - a Delica4 that I bought new a couple years ago - has been superb, and I consider it among the best knives I've ever owned. I had to check and see where it was made after reading this; and yep - made in Japan. Hope Spyderco takes care of this so I can continue to be a customer in the future. Do keep us posted when you hear back from Mr. Glesser.
     
  11. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    For the record, my recent Military (a Golden, CO product) is on par with my Microtechs as far as production quality, and steps ahead of my ZT and Benchmade products.

    Sorry to hear they're not doing that consistently, because when Spyderco in 'on their game', they make some awesome knives.


    Larry
     
  12. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd love to know how a Spyderco Military is steps ahead of Benchmade and ZT. What BM and ZT are you comparing it to?
     
  13. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    ZT0200 (only one) BM Spike and Elishawitz something or other. Neither are bad, just the level of interior detailing, symmetry and lines running true are not up to the recent Military; it's very nearly perfect, something I don't say about knives very often.


    Larry
     
  14. torqem

    torqem member

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    I've never understood the appeal of high $ knives.. Billions of people do all the cutting that needs done with $5 knives. :)
     
  15. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, you're comparing a current production Spyderco to a couple of Benchmades from the late 90s. Your ZT 0220 has curves that are hellacious to machine and finish. The Millie is pretty straight forward in comparison.

    I'll give Spyderco credit that the G10 handles on my PM2 are nicer than the Noryl GTX plastic handles on my Benchmade RSK Mk1 Griptilian. However, the Griptilians have a larger stronger pivot than the PM2, and they have a much smoother lock. The RSK version of the Grip also has a stonewashed blade. Otherwise the details between the two are identical - other than the fact that neither Griptilian I own has ever had a pocket clip screw come loose, much less fall out in transit NIB! That's comparing two knives with tall, 3.5" long S30V blades with very similar street prices.

    I've also NEVER had a problem with pocket clip screws on a any Benchmade. I thought it was over the top marketing a few years ago when I read a statement from Les DeAsis (owner and founder of Benchmade) about bringing their screw production in house because no supplier could meet their quality standards. Now I see how serious that is, and wish Spyderco was as stringent on their QA / QC standards.
     
  16. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    And that is the root of your problem I'd wager.

    The confluence of a lazy inspector and a lack of adherence to work instructions most likely
     
  17. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    That, or worn out taps, or bad batches of screws from a supplier because everything on the two US made knives noted was perfect or nearly perfect: Everything except for the clip. All of which are very cheap and very fixes that haven't been implemented. And therein lies the rub. A modern style folding knife is useless without a clip. The fact that I've had clip problems on knives from THE company that is responsible for the modern folding knife having a clip, and that is the owner of the registered trademark "Clipit" just makes me want to scream.

    The problems with the Taiwanese products are the result of a poor choice of liner finish rather than a problem with manufacturing or QA / QC.
     
  18. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    I've been carrying a Spyderco everyday for over 20 years. Endura and Dragonfly. No complaints. Mine have all said Seki-City, Japan. I can't speak to the Taiwanese versions.
     
  19. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    As everyone knows, I love Spydercos. They make good knives at fair prices, and the Glessers are great people.

    The ONLY frequent problem I've had with my Spydercos has involved clips.
     
  20. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    That's the thing. Whenever someone says "I've had this product for X amount of years, and it's great", it has no relationship what so ever to the current product.

    It's the older products that companies made their name on, but if they don't keep up their standards, there's no longer any valid comparison.
     
  21. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    A little bit ago I fixed the Native 5 clip issue by swapping in the clip screws from a roughly ten year old Benchmade TSEK. The Benchmade screws were slightly (we're talking thousandths of an inch) longer than the Native 5 screws. I noted that the liners on both knives are the same thickness but that the G10 scales on the Native are slightly thicker. So, I figured I'd try the Native screws on the TSEK, and they're working quite well. I now have a Spyderco with a polished stainless clip secured by black coated Benchmade screws, and a Benchmade with a matte black clip secured by silver colored Spyderco screws.

    Then, a few minutes ago I called Spyderco and somehow pushed the right random buttons and Eric Glesser himself answered the phone. We had a not quite lengthy talk. He listened to all the problems I'd laid out, made sure my phone number was correctly displayed on his caller ID, and took my email address. He has assured me that he will begin investigating the issues we discussed.

    I also informed him of this thread, and told him I'd be happy let everyone here on THR know what steps he takes to solve these issues. He has assured me that he will email me in the coming weeks after he is able to investigate and he will let me know what actions are being taken to remedy these issues.

    If nothing else I was able to talk to the owner's son and vent about my issues, but also be help him by providing a detailed analysis of the problems I've encountered. Things are looking up. I'm now cautiously optimistic. Stay tuned folks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  22. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    If you mean me, then you misunderstood me. Mine are not the same knives, but new ones. I've carried the Endura, then the Endura II, III, now the Endura IV. Ladybugs and Dragonflies. I've lost a few, and retired a couple. Bought them as gifts just last year. Oldest is 15 years, the one in my pocket is about 7-8 years old. They've given me far more use than any other knife could. Every single day. I've never been attracted to their more expensive models. I like the simplicity, economy and ruggedness of the basic line. I used to look for alternatives, but never found anything I liked better for even twice the price.
    In me experience, buying them over the last 25 years they have gotten better.

    You can have my Endura when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
     
  23. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    :) John and I told you the Glessers were stand up people.

    I have met Eric, smart man, who will follow through.
     
  24. ChaoSS

    ChaoSS Member

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    Just a correction, the harbor freight knife is on sale more often than not, so it is more accurately described as a four dollar knife.

    Mine is my edc, and it may not have the greatest blade but i don't usually have problems with rust anywhere and the clips stay put.
     
  25. BlueSmoke14

    BlueSmoke14 Member

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    My recently lost Spyderco Delica with a full serrated blade was the best EDC knife ever.

    So sad to see it go missing....in a workplace......of course never turned in....
     
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