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Spyderco Wave Range Report

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by Coyote3855, Dec 13, 2006.

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  1. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

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    I have owned, carried, lost, and worn out several Sypderco knives, Enduras, a Police, several Natives (among the lost). I think they are excellent knives for the money: innovative designs, steady improvement in ergonomics, etc.

    So, I got sucked up in the enthusiasm for the Endura with the wave feature, ordered one, liked it right away. Good lines, secure grip, usual Spyderco quality.

    Started to experiment with the wave feature after watching an Emerson video on the web. Cool! Except, oops... I can't carry the Wave in my front pocket because that's where my KelTec 3AT lives. All things being equal when the balloon goes up, I would rather have seven rounds of hot .380 in my hand than a sharp knife.

    Therefore, my usual carry location for a large folder is IWB, right behind the first beltloop on my Carhartts. The Wave feature will work from that location if I remember to twist out so the Wave catches on the waistband. But not always. Also, using the Wave requires that the knife hand extend rearward a fair ways. The first time I tried it, I went "oh, ****", because I just dragged the a sharp edge across the inside of my $300 Filson mackinaw (it's winter in Wyoming). No damage, but I can see how that style of draw could do serious harm to the jacket of your Armani suit.

    Anyone else see these issues with the Waved folders, or am I just old and out of it?

    Coyote3855
     
  2. Boom-stick

    Boom-stick Member

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    I have a waved delica and did the same Emerson watching as you:)

    All was well and good, but (like you) something else resides in my front pocket so I switched rear right pocket, which works OK but like you said, you have to remember to twist it slightly to use the wave and also like you I also seem to have taken the (very sharp) blade to the pocket edge of my
    5.11's:rolleyes:

    I think the knife is great and highly recommend them but they do require a bit more practise than your piece of steel.

    Dan
     
  3. Zero_DgZ

    Zero_DgZ Member

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    Eh. I never got into gimmicky folders like that. Give me a thumb stud and a bearing that doesn't suck (or a decent balisong, as of late) and I can get it out just as fast. Automatics, "waves", spring assists, and things that can go "sproing" in my pocket or during draw do not sit well with me.
     
  4. carpediem

    carpediem Member

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    The primary purpose of the wave is rapid deployment that doesn't require fine motor skills (which could go kaput in a stressful situation). Seeing as how you have a firearm for stressful situations (which, as you rightly say, you would go for first), the wave's primary function - IMHO - has already been superceded.

    I'd recommend keeping it in your right rear pocket. I have no problem deploying waved knives in this matter from my peans, dockers, or cargo pants. Then again, it's probably more of a knack than anything else. If you give up on the wave, it's still a handy way to carry the knife (just remember not to inadvertently catch the wave when withdrawing :what: ).

    Perhaps you're drawing the wave differently. I've seen it done basically two ways (see attached photo). I always catch point #2, the vertical seam at the edge of the pocket, when waving.


    [QUOTE:/Zero_DgZ/]I never got into gimmicky folders like that. Give me a thumb stud and a bearing that doesn't suck (or a decent balisong, as of late) and I can get it out just as fast. Automatics, "waves", spring assists, and things that can go "sproing" in my pocket or during draw do not sit well with me.[/QUOTE]

    I am not a fan of spring assisted openers either. I like a good OTF Auto, though we're limited to less than 2" blades here in CA. DOn't know that I'd call the wave a gimmick, as - when properly done - is probably the fastest possible way of opening a knife. Thumb studs are gimmicky - everyone knows that thumbHOLES are the only way to go :rolleyes: Balisong? Talk about gimmicky. The deadly ballet of severed fingers, Act 1; Scene 1.
     

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  5. TFin04

    TFin04 Member

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    My EDC knife is a Delica 4. I like the wave feature, but it only works reliably when carried in the front pocket.

    To me, a knife is a tool, not a weapon. If I'm in a situation that requires me to use the knife (IE: My gun and reload are empty, and my pepper spray is empty, and my legs are broken), I don't think any knife will be much 'better' than another.

    I ended up selling my Waved Delica and carry a standard one now. Great knife.
     
  6. tellner

    tellner member

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    If they'd just spend the bread to put out a half-serrated model the waved Endura would be perfect.
     
  7. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

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    Thanks for the responses. My front pocket KelTec is a bug, primary carry is either Kahr P9 or Springfield Armory Champion .45. So, yeah, the Spyderco is a ways down the list of threat response. I agree that the Wave feature isn't a gimmick, works great under the right circumstances. I will continue to carry it and open it with the hole, as I did/do my other Spyders.

    Coyote8355
     
  8. Skofnung

    Skofnung Member

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    I carry a normal Endura, but I do like the looks of the waved one, not so much because of the wave feature, but because the blade looks lighter and slimmer.

    I wish they were avaliable back when I was in the market for a largish folder. Perhaps I'll break down and get one.
     
  9. Zero_DgZ

    Zero_DgZ Member

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    Guilty as charged, there.

    I've gotten pretty good with mine, but along the way I've picked up the marks of a butterfly slinger - the nicks and cuts from opening the danged thing the wrong way have healed over now that I don't do that anymore, but I have a callous right below the top knuckle on my index finger where the blunt side gets me one, two, three, four times in one opening and closing.

    A properly tensioned, lubed, and bearinged knife (like my "plain old" Benchmade Ambush, and most of my Gerbers, and one of my Schrades) doesn't need a stud, hole, widget, or gizmo. A good enough flick of the wrist is enough inertia to snap the sucker open, so long as you don't have butter fingers.

    If you do there's a lot of cursing involved, and then you gotta pull your knife out of the wall...

    If the combination of rapid deployment and butter fingers are a concern, methinks a folder of any description shouldn't be your first choice.
     
  10. Boom-stick

    Boom-stick Member

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    I do like the wave feature and don't find it anywhere near as gimicky as an OTF, less to wrong/break etc...

    Never had a problem with balisongs either, other than the fact they're illegal here:confused:

    The other nice thing about waved blades compared to switch blades etc, is you can, if necessary, open them quietly;)
     
  11. stealthmode

    stealthmode Member

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    you can grind your own wave on a serrated endura, I did.
     
  12. MadMercS55

    MadMercS55 Member

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    I have both a Waved Endura and an Emerson Commander. I find the larger Wave on the Endura seems to catch better for me. I think the Wave is a great thing, far from being a gimmick. It does a good job getting the knife open in a hurry. I carry a folder for both utility and backup\defense and I do practice without using the Wave just in case it misses and doesn't open the knife in a streeful situation. Definatly one thing to consider if carrying a Waved folder.
     
  13. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I have a Waved Endura. I actually got it because I was enthusiastic about getting a "speed dialer" sheath to mount on my IBA, but haven't heard anything back from the sheath maker... :(
     
  14. Joe Talmadge

    Joe Talmadge Member

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    I feel a little actual hands-on training brings things into perspective. What may seem gimmicky in the living room may not seem so in training, and vice versa.

    When we do drills where someone plays a bad guy assaulting a good guy, and the good guy has to make space and draw under stress (have the bad guy throw some controlled punches that are hard enough to keep the stress level up, have him charge in when space is made), things start to really break down. In general, we've found it's amazingly difficult to pull a folder out and deploy it. Hitting a small thumb stud is a nightmare, slow because your ability to hit or even feel the stud goes down, none of us go with thumbstud openings under stress anymore. Some of us have moved to wrist-flick type openings, which work much much better than a thumbstud, but have the downside of occasionally resulting in a thrown knife. A wave really shines here -- it is in my experience the fastest, most secure and reliable opening mechanism under stress. So much for gimmicky :) Now if you manage to draw the knife before the assault, that's different, but in the real world, I wouldn't count on that.

    If you haven't trained it, I'd strongly suggest doing so before dismissing the wave, or thinking that studs work as well just because they work when you're relaxed in your living room.
     
  15. tellner

    tellner member

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    I don't know if I'm just a mutant. Or maybe it's because I've been carrying Spyderco knives for so long that it's second nature. I've had to draw and open them under stress and didn't have any trouble finding the thumbhole. The wave feature is still wonderful.
     
  16. HornsKeith

    HornsKeith Member

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    Joe, are you doing that kind of work with a waved trainer of some sort or a real blade? I kinda figured I'd pick up the waved P'Kal / trainer combo when it came out, which might facilitate this kind of testing more easily.

    Keith
     
  17. Joe Talmadge

    Joe Talmadge Member

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    I'm in for a p'kal & trainer myself. What we currently do is take a regular endura or delica drone, and either dremel a wave into it (I haven't done that yet but some training partners have) or put a zip tie on it. The zip ties are less reliable than a real wave, but are a good enough approximation for training (and maybe it's more realistic that the zip tie waves sometimes don't work)
     
  18. Plink

    Plink Member

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    I've carried an Endura since they first hit the market and I still don't think there's a better knife. For me, anyway. I don't get the wave thing though. What's wrong with the plain ol' thumb hole? It's sheer instinct to open it that way, and there's nothing to catch on clothing. I can't see how the wave improves on it a bit.
     
  19. Boats

    Boats member

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    I have played (trained) with a waved Spyderco before. The wave feature, whether on an Emerson, or grafted onto a Spydie, is not foolproof.

    In any event, I still think my Benchmade AFCK is the best thing going. It has the Spyderhole in it coupled with the Axis lock, which is far faster than overcoming the force of a lockback's spring. As the video below demonstrates, with practice, you don't even need the hole or the studs to make an Axis lock as fast as, or even faster than, most automatics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y6AKZsApqo
     
  20. Joe Talmadge

    Joe Talmadge Member

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    Plink, if you haven't stress-trained this, I'm not sure what I can say to convince you, other than that the guys I've trained with all now have an appreciation of the wave that they didn't have previously. Opening for utility use or in your living room is a different situation than a panic opening while you're evading the charging attack of your training partner. The wave definitively makes a difference -- but you never heard me say that until I started pressure testing this. Not to say that a hole won't work (seemed to have worked fine for tellner), just saying that in my training group at least, we've seen the wave being a significant advantage. Inertial opening works well but with the risk noted previously. Hole works next best for me, then stud. The method of thumbing back the axis lock that Boats mentioned is unworkable (when pressure tested, it's fine for living room openings), at least for me -- I'd rather just go with an inertial opening, which works fine with axis locks, than try to hit and pull back that little axis button under stress.

    Joe
     
  21. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Like Joe says we've given up trying to hit the stud/hole/saucer when panic opening a folder and have gone to speed flicks. And just as he pointed out, they don't always work, but the speed flick is a lot more reliable than trying to hit a stud/hole/saucer with the thumb.
     
  22. tellner

    tellner member

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    Even though the thumb hole worked fine for me I would have been happier with the wave. Of course, if I'd known that trouble was coming I wouldn't have had to use either because I would have been somewhere else drinking beer and hitting on the waitress :)
     
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