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Squirrel-spawned .17HMR thoughts

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Snowdog, May 7, 2003.

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  1. Snowdog

    Snowdog Member

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    While out walking today, I saw a trememdous surplus of squirrel.
    I was thinking how nice it would have been to have had my Remington 597 .22WMR. Then I though how much better it would have been to have a new rifle... something in a .17HMR maybe.

    I was wondering if NEF makes a cheap Handi-Rifle in this caliber.

    Also, those of you who have had experience with the Handi-Rifle in general, is the accuracy generated by these cheap little rifles respectable?
     
  2. Bruce H

    Bruce H Member

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    Several have been sold here. Marlin, Savage, and NEF. All seem to shoot rather well according to the owners. I don't own a .17 but have a .22 and a 45/70 in NEF. Good rifles for the money.
     
  3. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I had a UltraVarmint (heavy barrel, laminated stock) in 223 that did just fine accuracy-wise - couple failures to extract. For the price, it would be pretty hard to beat but I think for a rimfire rifle, I'd rather ante up a couple more bucks to get a fast followup shot.
     
  4. PATH

    PATH Member

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    Snowdog,

    I have a .17 and I am told it is wonderful. I can't say for sure because I can't find ammo for the darn thing!:banghead: :cuss:
     
  5. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    What the hell's the point of shooting squirrels....

    Running out of ingredients for possum stew?
     
  6. ShaiVong

    ShaiVong Member

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    I've shot 6 at my house in downtown urbania... With a $40 177 cal pellet rifle i got from wally world.

    War was declared when they started chewing huge holes in the eves of my house.. I am out numbered, but my spirits are high.

    Last message received from Shai in Maine:


    Send. More. Squirrels.

    :evil:
     
  7. Snowdog

    Snowdog Member

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    Don't tell me a fellow THR member reduced himself to demographic slights! Isn't that what this question is intended to be? :mad:

    As for the reason why? Take a look at the trees in my back yard and perhaps you'll understand.
    For the past few winters, squirrels have been tearing the holy hell out of my pines and for what reason, I haven't a clue. I wouldn't have even attributed such atrocious damage to common squirrels if my neighbor hadn't pointed it out last year, having suffered the same quandary himself.

    These same rodents have also been digging away at his wife's garden, so there's less love for them on his property.

    Yes, they're cute critters, but then again, so are prairie dogs.
     
  8. M1911

    M1911 Member

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    I've been using a Have-a-heart trap for squirrels and chipmunks at my house. When I get a customer, I pick up the trap and take it over to a trash barrel I have full of water and immerse it for a while. Result is a dead critter and is even quieter than an air gun.

    Not as fun as using an air gun, but takes less time and less concern over a neighbor calling the police...
     
  9. Midnight

    Midnight Member

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    I hope someone does that to you one day. Shooting varmints to get rid of them is one thing. That's a quick, clean kill. Drowning an animal in a cage borders on barbaric. You sicken me.
     
  10. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    Yeah M1911, I'm kinda suprised that you'd do that. I don't really wish anyone to drown you to teach you a lesson or anything but I think that definately falls under animal cruelty in my book, anyway. My wife's dad (who has an orchard and was killing them for damage control) would trap them then drown them... even had a big trough that he could put the whole trap in. When I started going out with my wife and heard about this, I asked him why he didn't just shoot them through the cage and he said, "Oh no... I couldn't just shoot an animal that close... I don't have the heart for it." But it's OK to drown them over several minutes and take at least two deer every season?

    Some folks I just don't get.

    Brown squirrels are cute and all and the kids love to watch them do their cute little hand things but around here grey squirrels are pretty agressive. I've had them rush towards me while walking the dog. And I don't care what any tre-hugging PETA wannabe says, I ain't takin' no chances with my kids. There's plenty of land around here - they don't have to be on mine. I shoot everyone of em I see immediately around here. After 3 days of shooting, I don't see any for a while.
     
  11. Shalako

    Shalako Member

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    I'm not judging anybody. If an action needs to be done, be done with it. How can someone say their method is peachy keen and roses but someone else from a different background and rationale is Bad bad bad. That's weak. Hell, if it don't work for you, don't do it. Free choice is neat if you think about it.
     
  12. ShaiVong

    ShaiVong Member

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    :banghead:

    Should i say i hope somebody does that to you one day?:fire:
     
  13. Midnight

    Midnight Member

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    Perhaps that was a little harsh on my part....but if I have to be killed, PLEASE give me a bullet to the vitals over drowning.
     
  14. M. Jager

    M. Jager Member

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    According to what they teach in Iowa Furharvester Education courses drowning is concidered a humane form of dispatch.
    Personally, I wouldn't know but if the DNR says its humane then its acceptable in my book.
     
  15. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    How about more thought and less emoting of emotions? Hmmm?

    All you "pro-shoot" types: You can guarantee me that you have never ever made a bad shot? That you never will? NEVER?

    Like it or not, drowning of small critters has been an accepted method of disposal for many, many decades.

    Heck, when I was around six months old, I set a world record for the length of an underwater swim while totally surrounded by a gunny-sack!

    :D, Art
     
  16. resmeth

    resmeth Member

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    Having almost drowned once I can say it is pretty terrifying. After a lot of coughing, gasping and puking (even after the point where you think you are as good as dead) you finally get your breath back then it hits you that you almost died.

    Just shoot me even if it takes a few shots, it has to be quicker than drowning.
     
  17. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

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    I have enabled mice to drown themselves before. I was at this remote camping location for the boys camp I used to work at. The mice are always getting into stuff, imagine that! Anyway, I discovered by accident that if you leave a 5 gallon bucket lying around, a mouse can jump in it and get stuck. I discovered this when I found a huge fat, pregnant mouse in an empty bucket by the log storage cabin. So I figured, how could I catch more mice that way? I set up a 5 gallon bucket in the log cook cabin. I put about 4 inches of water in it. Then all around the top of the water line went peanut butter. Set the bucket next to a shelf. Instant results. Were were at camp fire one night, 30 minutes after setting out the bucket I went to check on it, one dead mouse! I ended up getting like 11 mice in a matter of 3-4 days with that method. I don't think it took that mouse too long to drown. I guess I am not as horrible as M1911 because I leave it up to the critter to drown himself.

    I have killed a ground squirrel in a live trap before though. I used a trapping stake and speared him through the head. Very graphic, but fairly quick. Never thought of drowning them. Really what is the difference between this and gut shooting a squirrel and watching it run back into its whole with its guts hanging out? You want quick kills, but it just doesn't always happen.
     
  18. M1911

    M1911 Member

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    Perhaps a little harsh? Personally, I think that's more than a bit of an understatement.

    First, it does not take minutes to drown a squirrel or chipmunk. These are small critters with small lungs. Second, I've hit a squirrel once with a .22 in the chest, and before I could get a second shot, he dragged himself off to die. How much more humane is that? Third, there's zero chance of a ricochet with drowning. I'm in the suburbs with neighbors nearby, not out in the boonies. I personally consider the safety of my neighbors to be of highest importance.
     
  19. ShaiVong

    ShaiVong Member

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    I'm not arguing either way if drowning or gunfire is a more humane way to kill... Is there really? Maybe paying $20 to get them put down at a vet, but you have to consider that they will probably get injured in handling alone to get them there and give them a shot that they dont want to get.

    I've found tons of drowned rats and mice in the water buckets at my mothers horse farm, and I have shot a squirrel with a 22, twice, only to have to put it down after i find it on the ground with its intenstines hanging out (after it finally rolls off of the roof).

    There is no sure way to kill something quick and painfull, and my concience is clean as long as i TRY.

    The issue i have is with somebody spouting "I hope somebody does that to you!".

    That just ticks me off, and i know it was a hasty post. A sincere attempt to destroy something quickly, and the sadistic and intentional prolonging of the suffering of another creature for ones own perverted excitement are two completely different ball fields.

    I just dont like it when an innocent act is draged to an evil act. :(



    In closing, if somebody was actually commiting the Evil act, then I certainly hope they meet a demise, although I can't in good conscience express hope that the same act is visited upon them. Dead is dead, and no matter how they get there, they're still gone for good.
     
  20. Shalako

    Shalako Member

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    Some general thoughts...

    Non-shooters always seem to be hung up on how distasteful it is to actually dispatch a critter. They pride themselves on how bad it turns their stomach. Yet they buy meat on a styrofoam tray at the grocery store. Their hands are clean. They like to think that humans are above killing and the deed done at the slaughter house is just best left un-thought-of. Now, contrast a human dispatching a critter with the way it goes down in the wild. Talons ripping flesh and joints apart. Packs of viscous beasts ambushing and dragging down an unsuspecting creature after its last mad dash for life. Succumbing to numerous mortal bites tearing flesh. Pardon the graphic content, but a quick submersion or whack on the back of the head or JHP seems far more humane than going down to a cougar or pack of coyotes.

    My sister's dog (1/2 coyote, sweet little feller) recently disappeared in the Mojave Desert area so I have a fresh resentment to the natural order of what could happen to a trusting companion in the wild...

    Such is life.
     
  21. ShaiVong

    ShaiVong Member

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    Thats a good point. I'm sure PETA and others would call me grabbing a rat and eating it while its still thrashing horrible abuse, yet it is exactly what will happen to it if caught by a cat or avian predator in nature, which they worship. Just when i thought "Gaia" was cute and non-violent!


    And yet, when this happens to humans (I.E. Shark and allagator attacks), its typically OUR fault, while when we shoot varments, its not THEIR fault.:rolleyes:
     
  22. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I don't disagree with you on many things, Art, but just because something is accepted by some, sure don't make it right. I know guys that go hunting every year and never practice in between. If they're lucky, they wound a deer. No one on here with any sporting backbone would condone or defend a poor shooter taking unlikely shots on animals, mostly because it could result in an animal suffering but for some reason, it's OK to do something that you know will result in an animal suffering?

    Hey... if it works for you... fine. My father in law actually said he drowned racoons because he couldn't stand to shoot them with the animals looking right at him. I guess maybe for some folks drowning and animal and not having to watch it is easier than having to watch yourself shoot it. :(
     
  23. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Personally I am in favor of shooting rather than drowning. Of course, you'd have to be careful not to damage the cage when you shoot into it. Perhaps it would be better to empty it into a large cardboard box before the shooting began, OR you could just drop a little rat poison in the cage with them.

    Having lived in rural Colorado, I am a big fan of vermin poison. If you have a big problem, you can't shoot them fast enough or wait around for one to stick his head up...too many other things to do in life. Just walk around with your jug of "Gopher bait" and drop a few tablespoons full in each hole. The next day you won't have a vermin problem.
     
  24. M1911

    M1911 Member

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    Shalako: Good point. A dear departed cat of ours (may she rest in peace) was quite an accomplished huntress. Until Dimanda succumbed to kidney disease, the chipmunk population was under control. Unfortunately, her litter mate is aging quickly, and while the instinct is still there, his arthritis is such that he's mostly retired from hunting.

    But there was nothing that disappointed Dimanda more than when the chipmunk died prematurely. She preferred to bring them in the house alive and play with them. I remember one time when her "toy" died too quickly. For the next 30 minutes, she picked up the dead chipmunk in her mouth, tossed it into the air with a flick of her head, and then pounced on it when it hit the ground.
     
  25. M1911

    M1911 Member

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    I suspect that the critter would be up and out of the box before you could say the word "escaped." Is the death from poison more "humane" than drowning? Or is it simply out of site, out of mind?
     
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