SRH .454Casull or .460 S&W????

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Stainz,
That you for your reply, and you your chrono findings with the 7.5" SRH.
A chronograph is something I am going to look into.
Finding the REAL velocities as opposed to what is posted by the ammo companies, is something that should be of interest to all of us.
The more I shoot this big, ugly SRH, the more I love it.

Redhawk,
I am curious. What kind of velocity differences are you seeing between the 5" and the 8 3/8 .460?
 
Blacklabman, I am only getting a 50 to 100 fps difference. My buddy has a chronograph and we wanted to see the difference also. Not a lot of difference. I am shooting 240 gr. Hornady XTP Mag's at 2160 to 2185 fps in my 7.5 inch.
 
Oh good grief!!!


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You are reading spec's off the side of the boxes or what you read. You are not going by real data you have produced yourself.

So the ammo manu. just pull the specs out of the air and should not be used when comparing loads and cartridges ?:scrutiny:

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the funny thing about this conversation is, there are some of us the own and shoot 460 Mags, and then there are those that want to take away from the 460 and they have never owned or shot one. To me the ones that own and shoot them carry more credibility over those that just read and post about ballistics.

So if I buy a revolver and shoot a box of ammo,I would then be an expert in that cartridge and able to claim whatever I wanted? :scrutiny: Interesting.That means I can claim a 308 is nowhere near the 30-06 since my main hunting gun is a 30-06.I could....... but the numbers would prove me wrong.

No one has tried to take anything away from the 460.Just looking for verification of the hype that surrounds it and for some reason that upsets you.:scrutiny:


MY QUOTE:
I've posted the closest cartridge specs I have been able to find.Where can a shooter buy ammo that blows the 454 away in an apples-to-apples comparison?


Still waiting.;)
 
redhawk1 i agree, also thanks for the advice you gave me on what kind of scope i should get for my 460 a few months ago. the leopoldIII is strong enough to take the recoil and finding target is quick...a great gun deserves a great scope
 
454c, no hype. The 460 will out due the 454 Casull. Try it yourself. Load 240 gr XTP's mag's to the max in both cases with the same type powder and run them through a chronograph. Do the same for any like bullet with it's max load and you will see. Also go buy some factory ammo with the same weight bullets and run them through a chronograph and see your results. You will have a different perspective of the 460 Mag.

You can call yourself anything you want to, expert, now it all, box reader it does not matter to me. I know what the 454 Casull will do and I know what the 460 Mag will do, I took the time to do the work and shot both rounds in the same gun , Oh yea you can't do that, the SRH will not shoot the 460 Mag. :neener:

Do a little more research and get back to me. Hope you did not wait to long for my answer. :D
 
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454c, no hype. The 460 will out due the 454 Casull. Try it yourself. Load 240 gr XTP's mag's to the max in both cases with the same type powder and run them through a chronograph. Do the same for any like bullet with it's max load and you will see. Also go buy some factory ammo with the same weight bullets and run them through a chronograph and see your results. You will have a different perspective of the 460 Mag.


Still no info but,it's a calmer response.Maybe we can get somewhere.



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You can call yourself anything you want to, expert, now it all, box reader it does not matter to me. I know what the 454 Casull will do and I know what the 460 Mag will do, I took the time to do the work and shot both rounds in the same gun , Oh yea you can't do that, the SRH will not shoot the 460 Mag.



Ooops,maybe not.



Redhawk,if you will step down from that 460 cloud for a few minutes and take a deep breath,kick the dog or whatever you need to do to calm down,maybe we can get to some info that will help myself and others.After you've calmed down,re-read this thread and you'll notice a couple things.

Nowhere have I said that the 454 will outrun the 460.I haven't even said it was dead even with the 460.Somewhere along the line,you have assumed it was said.

I posted factory specs and you claimed BS.When I asked for more info,you flew off the handle and went on a rant about the ammo manu. being liars and the credibility of those that don't own a 460.
The only valid point you have offered with any merit is the case capacity.This is a good point and can't be disputed.If a handloader loads each hotter than blue blazes,then yes,the 460 should pull away from the 454 due to case capacity.
Here's the catch,most shooters don't reload and the ammo manu. are not putting that extra case capacity to use.Neither cartridge is being loaded to it's full potential and the 460 is only giving an extra 50-100 fps in factory loads.
I wish I had the funds to purchase a chrono,ammo and every gun/cartridge combo out there to test but,I don't.You said you have done some testing.GREAT!!!Enlighten us.What numbers did you get?
 
454c, I was never up set, it was just your perception. I just find it amazing how people have and still try to down play the 460 Mags velocity over the 454 Casull. I have had so may discussions with 454 Casull owners and how they think the 460 Mag is just a over rated round. As far as posting all my findings, I did not keep all my data, and I wish I had. I found out what I want to and just continued to shoot the 460 Mag. I sold all three of my 454 Casull's, a Freedom Arms Premier Grade and two of the Super Redhawk's.

I can tell you that I was able to get more powder in the 454 Casull cases because I was using the longer cylinder of the S&W 460 Mag and was able to seat the bullets out further than I could in either of the FA or SRH. But even with that, I was well below 200 to 250 fps difference between the 454 Casull and 460 Mag.

To tell you the truth, I don't utilize all of the speed of the 460 Mag, I went after accuracy over speed after I found out what the 460 Mag was capable of. The fun part was I was able to experiment with different rounds and loads in the same gun. But like I said several posts ago, I don't take anything away from the 454 Casull, it is an awesome round and will works for anything on the North American Continent or any place else.

After rereading all of the thread, here is some of your comments that I had problems with.

"It's kinda funny actually. S&W re-invented the 454,chambered it in a heavier, bulkier revolver and charged more money for it."


"Just looking for verification of the hype that surrounds it"

"neither one stands head and shoulders over the other."

"Oh yes.The "2300 fps" claim to fame"
 
Sorry if my wording somehow offended you.All to often I see 460 comments that sound like a hyped-up sales pitch from an advertsement and when I look up the specs for the ammo that myself and others would be shooting,I just don't see the justification.I guess that's going to boil down to a shooters opinion of the 50-100fps that the specs show.Some folks might get great excitement about it but,I'm not one of them.

It's a shame you don't have the results from your tests.It would have been interesting to see.
 
.454c
Can you suggest a scope that will take the pounding of the .454 Casull SRH?
I have used a Holosight for the 629's in hunting. The y ahve worked great for quick pickup in the woods.
Along with hunting, the SRH should also make a fine silhouette revolver.
Would you suggest a variable scope or a red dot?
I'm looking for a scope that can handle the heavy recoil, and do dual duty?
Also, I have not had a chance to do distance shots yet. What would you say the max effective range for this revolver/round is?
 
454c, I wish I would of kept it also. I could of used it in several of my 454 Casull Vs 460 Mag discussions.
 
Blacklabman, I know you did not ask me, but I know the for a fact that the Ultra-dot red-dot will hold up to the 454 Casull, I have one on my 500 and 460 Mags. I use the Match -dots now I also have one of there 1 inch tubes.Also a great scope is the Leupold III 2.5X8, I know it is expensive but in my opinion well worth it. I had a Bushnell trophy 2X6X32 on my Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull and had about 700 to 800 rounds down the tube on it without one problem. :D Hope this helped.
 
Redhawk,
Thanks for the reply.
That gunshop has stated that they will not be able to get a PC 6.5" .460 in until the first of September.
They told me they were backordered. That actually works out well. My name is first of the list, for when the arrive. After just paying the fees for the leases, and buying the SRH, it gives me time to save up keep the expense off the wifes radar, by not using the Debit or Credit Cards. Self Preservation. hehehe

I am going to check on the Leupold scope.
If it holds up to the pouding and provides a clear image when need, then it will be well worth it's price.
 
Sorry Blacklabman,I haven't scoped my 454 so I can't help you with that one.My findings from shooting other scoped handguns is I prefer a scope.
A couple pointers to keep in mind.
Don't get crazy with the magnification.Things tend to get pretty shaky on the top end.
Check the eye relief.On rifle scopes,there is usually only an inch or less of difference between makes and models.On handgun scopes there is several inches.This can make or break a comfortable shooting position.
I agree with Redhawk on Leupold being a good place to start.If they don't have what you want,most of the other big names are building handgun scopes that are worth a look.


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What would you say the max effective range for this revolver/round is?



Weellllll,that's kind of a loaded question with many variables and no definite answer.You mention targets and hunting,which one are you asking about ?

For targets the answer is as far as you and the revolver can go.
For hunting it gets a little more complicated.
 
460 Velocity with a 12 inch barrel

Has anyone compaired velocity with a chronograph, for the longest barrel .454 (Ruger 9.5 inch) to the longest 460 (S&W 12 inch)?

I have the Ruger 9.5 inch (.454) and the (460) S&W 8 3/8, I was wondering if the Hor. 200gr is faster than 2200/2250 fps. through the 12 inch barrel?



Regards Brian
 
Has anyone experienced the barrel erosion in the X-frame shooting the .460 S&W? I am curious because the .454 Casull in the FA 83 will cause damage to the forcing cone. FA used to ship the guns with a replaceable forcing cone until they learned that replacing the entire barrel was less cost than the forcing cone. I expect the higher velocities of the .460 coupled with the tolerances of the S&W will cause accelerated forcing cone wear and barrel erosion.

I have not put enough full-power rounds through my FA guns to note any erosion in my guns. I try to keep all of my loads at 1300 fps or lower, and not just to spare the gun. It spares me as well and does a great job on game.
 
.454c: The .460 will outrun the Casull by about 200 FPS with a given bullet weight when comparing 7.5" Casull's with the 8.375" X-frame.

Redhawk: The extra 10 or so grains of powder only makes for a bigger flash when you start whacking off barrel. This can be just as easily seen when comparing the Ruger Alaskan .454 to a Snubby .44 Mag. The Casull has nearly 10 grains capacity over the .44, yet is barely any more powerful from a 2-1/2" tube. The Casull goes from over 1,900ft/lbs to under 1,300 ft/lbs by dropping 5" of barrel. The .460's loss will be predictably greater.

Bottom line, more powder requires more barrel in which to burn it. The .460 gets it's incredible velocity from high pressures and slower powders (as well as the gain-twist rifling). These big boomers are much more affected by barrel length than a 9mm or .45.

Yes, the .460 will always exceed the Casull. But the shorter the tube, the smaller the margin will be.

There. It's settled!:neener:
 
velocity

MachIVshooter,

I enjoyed reading your message.

I contacted Hornady and was told the following;


.460 Hornady 200gr. is 2200fps. with a 8 3/8 inch barrrel
.460 Hornady 200gr. is 2250fps. with a 10 inch barrel
.460 Hornady 200gr. is 2300fps. with a 12 inch barrel

about 25 fps. / per inch (with the .45cal):)

Best Regards
 
Thanks for the info MachIVshooter.By any chance do you have info for both cartridges shot out of an X frame ?
 
I would think the advantage of the 460, 1.6" case would be being able to use 500 grain bullets, at moderate velocities.

S
 
Go with the 460, but.....

Realize that you defeat the purpose of the caliber if you purchase the shorter barrel lengths. A longer barrel means better ballistics. Also, in my expeience with my 8" 460, 454 ammo performs fairly well and the 460 ammo is very accurate until the barrel gets hot. But with 45 Colt ammo you will be wasting your time. Accuracy is marginal because the bullet is jumping a long distance from the shell to the forcing cone. And some people believe that if you shoot a steady diet of anything other then 460 ammo, you will start to get an erosion ring in the chambers and later 460 ammo wont extract properly.
 
Socrates:

That's a great point. I use the 495gr hardcast loaded to about 1,200 fps for backcountry packing in my 5" .460 here in Montana.

Big enough and fast enough to get the job done with low enough recoil to effectively double action if needed.

John L.
 
i am still whating on cabelas to get mt 460 5 inch in ,any day i hope.somebody said the 460 and 500 are just a silly fad (gb) but it dont look like that to me ,
 
ok guys lets keep this going / i just got my 460 5 inch today the store only had 2 boxes of hornady (that was all 460mag of anything) so i only shot 1 box when i got home but i think this will be my all time favorite handgun (make that any gun):neener:
 
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