SRH .454Casull or .460 S&W????
- Thread starter Blacklabman
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No recent activity on this thread, but here goes...
I actually found this thread while searching for information on the 460 XVR, and it played a part in my decision to buy one. I have several other guns, and have been shooting since I was a kid. Like most men, I like more power. You know, faster cars, stronger trucks, more powerful power tools, guns, etc.
So now I have this 460 XVR, and I bought some Hornady 200gr plastic-tipped bullets, some Colt .45's, and a few different 454 Casull rounds for it, and brought out a new piece of 1/2" mild steel to see what kind of penetrating power we're really talking about with these rounds. Over the years, we've shot with a 7mm, '06, .270, .44 mag, ,22 mag, 9mm pistol, etc, all the normal rounds a homeowner usually has in his arsenal. So I was really interested to see what 'the mighty casull' would do to it. Any guesses?
I took my Blackhawk .44 mag along, too, just for a reference.
The 300gr Casull makes a pretty good gouge in that steel. Of course, the 200gr 460 makes a much deeper, larger one, the Colt .45 doesn't even scratch it; the .44 mag makes a respectable dimple in it, etc. And now the point of this post:
I decided to buy some reloading equipment, as a logical next step, considering a dollar per shot for factory ammo, or more, it seemed the right thing to do. Problem is, I never did this before. Reloading looks pretty simple, but I don't quite think I'm aware of the dangers of loading shots too hot.
All I have been able to reload so far is .45 Colt ammo; the 460 shell won't fit in my shell holder, and the primers I bought are too big for the Casull case. So I decided to see how hot I could load the Colts.
At http://www.reloadammo.com/45cload.htm M. D. Smith says 10 grains of Unique is an ultra-hot load. But when I had measured that out and dumpted it into the case, I saw it was only half-full. So I put another grain, total 11, and went and shot it. Pop. So I took the shell back to my reloading bench, and filled it up to 15 grains, and back out and shot that.
Upshot is, I found I can put 20 grains of Unique in that shell...and then the .45 Colt begins to act more like a Casull round. (Factory)
And I found the shells expanded to fill the load holes in my gun quite tightly. So I backed it off, and instead of loading 20 grains, I dropped it to 17. So now I have dozens of Colt .45 rounds loaded to 17 grains of Unique powder; not, to my mind, as hot as they can get, but way hotter than recommended. I know a lesser gun would possibly be damaged, but we're talking about the S&W 460 Large Frame XVR here, right? Is all I am risking some split cases, shorter case life? Or am I really risking life and limb?
Need some advice from some reloaders if I can get it.
Thanks.
I actually found this thread while searching for information on the 460 XVR, and it played a part in my decision to buy one. I have several other guns, and have been shooting since I was a kid. Like most men, I like more power. You know, faster cars, stronger trucks, more powerful power tools, guns, etc.
So now I have this 460 XVR, and I bought some Hornady 200gr plastic-tipped bullets, some Colt .45's, and a few different 454 Casull rounds for it, and brought out a new piece of 1/2" mild steel to see what kind of penetrating power we're really talking about with these rounds. Over the years, we've shot with a 7mm, '06, .270, .44 mag, ,22 mag, 9mm pistol, etc, all the normal rounds a homeowner usually has in his arsenal. So I was really interested to see what 'the mighty casull' would do to it. Any guesses?
I took my Blackhawk .44 mag along, too, just for a reference.
The 300gr Casull makes a pretty good gouge in that steel. Of course, the 200gr 460 makes a much deeper, larger one, the Colt .45 doesn't even scratch it; the .44 mag makes a respectable dimple in it, etc. And now the point of this post:
I decided to buy some reloading equipment, as a logical next step, considering a dollar per shot for factory ammo, or more, it seemed the right thing to do. Problem is, I never did this before. Reloading looks pretty simple, but I don't quite think I'm aware of the dangers of loading shots too hot.
All I have been able to reload so far is .45 Colt ammo; the 460 shell won't fit in my shell holder, and the primers I bought are too big for the Casull case. So I decided to see how hot I could load the Colts.
At http://www.reloadammo.com/45cload.htm M. D. Smith says 10 grains of Unique is an ultra-hot load. But when I had measured that out and dumpted it into the case, I saw it was only half-full. So I put another grain, total 11, and went and shot it. Pop. So I took the shell back to my reloading bench, and filled it up to 15 grains, and back out and shot that.
Upshot is, I found I can put 20 grains of Unique in that shell...and then the .45 Colt begins to act more like a Casull round. (Factory)
And I found the shells expanded to fill the load holes in my gun quite tightly. So I backed it off, and instead of loading 20 grains, I dropped it to 17. So now I have dozens of Colt .45 rounds loaded to 17 grains of Unique powder; not, to my mind, as hot as they can get, but way hotter than recommended. I know a lesser gun would possibly be damaged, but we're talking about the S&W 460 Large Frame XVR here, right? Is all I am risking some split cases, shorter case life? Or am I really risking life and limb?
Need some advice from some reloaders if I can get it.
Thanks.
Lichen, I suggest you buy some reloading manuals, you are playing with fire what you are doing. There are reasons what there are max loads posted. Just because there is space left in a cartridge, it is not a reason to fill it. You are at great risk of damaging you gun by stretching the cylinder with over pressure load and worse off your own safty.You want to turn a 45 Colt into a 454 Casull, you can't that is why a 454 Casull was made. The X frame is not invincible, you can blow it up as well as other guns.
Buy the proper shell holder for the 460 Mag, it is the same one used for the 338 win mag from RCBS. The 454 Casull uses small rifle primers. The 45 Colt uses large pistol primers and the 460 S&W uses Large Rifle Primers.
Buy the proper shell holder for the 460 Mag, it is the same one used for the 338 win mag from RCBS. The 454 Casull uses small rifle primers. The 45 Colt uses large pistol primers and the 460 S&W uses Large Rifle Primers.
Thanks...Obviously I am new to reloading. It would sure be a shame to ruin my new gun by stretching the cylinder. I just picked up your post now, not ten minutes after I loaded a Casull cartridge so hot I had a hard time getting it out of the cylinder. But I put less than 30 grains in it, compressed. Wrong powder, obviously. I have a manual, just dipped into it enough to see specs.
I have a lot to learn about the development of magnum cartridges and tolerance levels etc. I want more power...but I need to learn a few things first.
First, I need to buy the right kind of powder for the Casull.
Redhawk, do you have a powder preference for your 460 XVR?
I have a lot to learn about the development of magnum cartridges and tolerance levels etc. I want more power...but I need to learn a few things first.
First, I need to buy the right kind of powder for the Casull.
Redhawk, do you have a powder preference for your 460 XVR?
Lichen, I use H 110 for my 460 Mags. Whatever you do, use the loading manual and do not go below or above the load data with H 110. You can get just as much over pressure from not enough powder as you can with to much of the H 110.
I use H 110 in my 454 Casull also.
The most important thing I will stress is, use and don't deviate from you loading manuals.
I use H 110 in my 454 Casull also.
The most important thing I will stress is, use and don't deviate from you loading manuals.
SnWnMe
Member
Well now that there is more handloading data for the 460 it is evident that it's quite the barn burner.
Hodgdon has some pretty hairy loads posted.
240gr @ 2254 vs 2066 for the 454
300gr @ 2067 vs 1746 for the 454
395gr @ 1796 vs 1309 for the 454
Yikes! I think i want one now!
Hodgdon has some pretty hairy loads posted.
240gr @ 2254 vs 2066 for the 454 300gr @ 2067 vs 1746 for the 454 395gr @ 1796 vs 1309 for the 454Yikes! I think i want one now!
aspade
Member
There are reasons for max loads, but with the 45 Colt in particular that reason is weak SAAs designed for blackpowder loads. SAAMI max on the 45 Colt is 14,000 PSI which is lower than any other cartridge out there.
You can't safely turn it into a Casull, but you can turn it into a fairly close approximation of a 44 Mag in a strong gun. (But adding more of a very fast powder is the wrong way to do it.)
You can't safely turn it into a Casull, but you can turn it into a fairly close approximation of a 44 Mag in a strong gun. (But adding more of a very fast powder is the wrong way to do it.)
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Buy a S&W 460, you can shoot the .460 S&W Magnum, the .454 Casull and .45 LC through it. (as I'm sure someone already said in the past 3 pages)
The Model 460XVR Compensated Hunter looks like a really nice hunting revolver. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...ted=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15707
The Model 460XVR Compensated Hunter looks like a really nice hunting revolver. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...ted=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15707
454c
Member
Dipping into the manual, wrong powders, over pressure loads
Lichen, BACK AWAY FROM THE RELOADER !!!!!
What you've done would make most reloaders kill over from heart failure. When I was toying with the idea of reloading, every loader worth a flip said the same thing-" Read the manual front to back and then read it again BEFORE loading the first shell".
Lichen, BACK AWAY FROM THE RELOADER !!!!!
What you've done would make most reloaders kill over from heart failure. When I was toying with the idea of reloading, every loader worth a flip said the same thing-" Read the manual front to back and then read it again BEFORE loading the first shell".
Revolver Ocelot
Member
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- Dec 4, 2006
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- 1,470
get the 460, it can fire the 460 ofcourse as well as the 454 and 45 long colt
I now have dies for my .270 win, my Colt and Casull, and dies on the way for the 460 XVR. I'm excited to say the least, and I have taken the above advice to heart and I am reading the manual all the way through. First, the manual deals with all the guys who actually invented various calibers and ammo-making factory machines and so on, people with engineering degrees, machinists and chemists; and I stand humbled.
After I loaded up a Casull round so hot I had a few moments' fear and trepidation when I couldn't extract the shell because it had swollen from the excessive pressure; I decided after that I had better gain a stronger understanding of the principles involved in firearms technologies.
As I said, I don't want to screw up my new 460...it's easily my favorite gun.
So I apologise to all...I was a fool. At least I didn't hurt anyone.
After I loaded up a Casull round so hot I had a few moments' fear and trepidation when I couldn't extract the shell because it had swollen from the excessive pressure; I decided after that I had better gain a stronger understanding of the principles involved in firearms technologies.
As I said, I don't want to screw up my new 460...it's easily my favorite gun.
So I apologise to all...I was a fool. At least I didn't hurt anyone.
benelli12
Member
Redhawk1....454c, Ive enjoyed your disagreements/argument/exchanging of facts...., and I learned a thing or 2, thanks.
I don't know the meaning of careful. I am trying to push the limits. There is no room for timidity.
The 454 Casull is a wimp compared with the awesome 460 X-frame, hands down. It can't be loaded nearly as hot; it bounces off steel plate the 460 punches right through.
The debate is over.
The 454 Casull is a wimp compared with the awesome 460 X-frame, hands down. It can't be loaded nearly as hot; it bounces off steel plate the 460 punches right through.
The debate is over.
454c
Member
Quote:
***The debate is over.***
In more ways than you realize.
***The debate is over.***
In more ways than you realize.
I've not owned a 454 revolver, but I do attest that this is one sweet shooting piece. I just put it together, so it has no blood on it, but I'll be showing it deer and elk this season; hopefully I don't reach for the sako!
The 200 grain loads are extremly comfortable to shoot with the compensator, and heavier cor bon loads can be shot without pain when not using a recoil glove.
The 200 grain loads are extremly comfortable to shoot with the compensator, and heavier cor bon loads can be shot without pain when not using a recoil glove.
MCgunner
Member
Personally, I'd rather have a Freedom Arms than either the SRH or the X frame. It's a finer built weapon, more precise, stronger all around, and easier to tote. Why would I want DA on a hunting revolver, anyway? DA is great for a snubby .38, but single actions rule in the wilds. JMHO of course.
http://www.freedomarms.com/
http://www.freedomarms.com/
The single action break on the model above is excellent. My nicest breaking trigger, and the nicest of most guns I've shot. the DA option is nice for bear protection, though. It's shootable in double action, and accurate if the shooter understands a how to shoot a DA.
357-8-times
Member
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- Aug 13, 2007
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- 210
Wrench in the mix:
Did you consider a Dan Wesson .445 SuperMag? Shoots .445 Super Magnum which is in the .454 realm of performance as well as .44mag/spl.
I am trying to find a new DW VH8 .445 to buy, no luck as of yet...
Did you consider a Dan Wesson .445 SuperMag? Shoots .445 Super Magnum which is in the .454 realm of performance as well as .44mag/spl.
I am trying to find a new DW VH8 .445 to buy, no luck as of yet...
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