Stand the Fort

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Liquid Metal

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US have had several unfortunate crises. Hurricane Katrina and the Rodney King Riot are two examples where they bring out the worst of people. There were gangs/people that broke every law possible ranging from looting to raping to murdering. I live in an area where there might be possible riot like Katrina down the road due to Mother Nature. Most likely, we would temporarily flee to another state but worst case scenario, we might not be able to flee.

This brings me to several questions. What cartridge can penetrate a regular red brick wall? Hypothetically, if I was to build a small station to protect my family and myself, what material would stop high caliber cartridge that is sold to the public?

http://www.theboxotruth.com
 
Probably the best way to build a structure that is resistant to rifle fire is to
use the current method of building using styrofoam blocks poured full of concrete or some similar method. Brick and stone fascia on standard 2X4 sheeted construction may, or may not stand up to weapon fire. However they would probably fall apart under the stress even if the round failed to penetrate. This would leave holes for future rounds to go through. I doubt if the standard "red brick" used on the exterior of homes would stand up to rifle fire. Even cinder block is not very effective cover unless filled with sand or cement.

No building will resist ballistic fire indefinitely. Even the thick adobe walls of the southwest and similar structures can fail if enough force is brought to bear. 7.62AP was often used in BAR's and other weapons by our troops to penetrate concrete cover being used by enemy forces. 50BMG would be even more effective. A number of the newer high power rounds in the correct loading could also pose a significant threat but fortunately some of the newer wildcat type cartridges are not readily available to
people who might use them for less than legal purposes. .338 Lapua etc comes to mind.
 
I would think that if you were to make your walls with 3 layers like this

cinder block

sand 10" thick

cinderblock

it should stop most small arms fire.

Kid
PS I am not an expert just going on what I have seen
 
Shouldn't this be in Strategy & Tactics?

Might be cheaper to fortify one indoor room.
I think rioters are opportunist types, not well armed.
 
sand bags

reinforce a wall or too, possibly a garage with sand bags, they are however bulky and a eye sore, not to mention dirty, however they are cheap and the dirt or sand could be free if you know where to go. They are also very handy if the tide comes in!!!
 
I have no experience in this area but do know that the more material you can put between you and them should equal more cover. Therefore I think underground if possible may be your best bet.:scrutiny:
 
Isn't there an army manual somewhere on fortifying regular homes? I seem to recall glancing at it in somebody's house or another. It was from the pre-slab contruction era, so I don't know how helpful it would be to folks in modern homes. I think it involved digging into the crawlspace or basement and using the area just above the ground for firing positions, then covering the floor above with sandbags.

But um.. that's prolly overkill for anything shy of a Waco-type visit. :p

More to the point, if I recall correctly boxoftruth.com has penetration tests of various building materials, right? I mean, more from the perspective of avoiding overpenetration, but might it help?
 
I think rioters are opportunist types, not well armed.
Click to expand...

My thoughts as well. I doubt that Looters would want to risk their lives, going up against an armed home owner. They are much more likely to just pass you up and move on to another Neighborhood.
 
What cartridge can penetrate a regular red brick wall?
Click to expand...
Not much can stand up to sustained rifle fire of 30 caliber or bigger. I can't find it now, but there was a PDF posted in the rifle forum over the summer of a report of tests done by the US military where they tested various calibers against barriers including glass, wood, concrete, brick and steel. Concentrated fire of M855 5.56 FMJ (all concentrated on one spot) will go through hollow cinderblocks in a few minutes. Fill the hollows with dirt or gravel and you have something a bit more substantial. It would take a LOT of concentrated fire of 5.56 to go through brick, but eventually it will get through. 7.62x51 (.308) FMJ will do it a lot quicker.

My brother uses cinderblocks and bricks as plinking fodder for his M14. 7.62x51 breaks them right up at 100 yards.

Also some bricks have hollows in them. I have some in a retaining wall on my property that have three holes that go down vertically through each brick, I suppose to save money.

Here's some cinderblocks getting chewed up pretty good:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot6.htm

Sand is apparently a very good barrier, but I wonder how you could keep it contained under sustained rifle fire.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm
 
Even something like .223 or buckshot can possibly shatter brick when its shot at. A decent .30 calibre is quite likely to go through a red brick wall and the inner walls too, even if some of its energy is gone, its still going to hurt if it hits you. I guess you could always put armour plates and sand between the walls and high quality bulletproof glass, though thats really expensive and the best way of defense is to dig down.

On the good side unless you are another Waco waiting to happen you should be fairly safe if they don't see you are an easy target.

I was lucky that this house was built really tough, with thick reinforced outer walls, a deep basement, free of flooding and pretty resistant to hurricane. Its major problem is the city electrical grid doesn't seem to be upgraded since the 1950s.
 
I'm not an expert:uhoh: , but I would personally be more worried about the neighborhood rioters torching my house, or forcing their way in. Outside of a drive by shooting, I don't see why someone would shoot at the exterior of my house.
 
The MOVE group in Philadelphia had fortified their brick home with railroad ties and logs, and subsequently engaged in a siege/gunfight with police in 1985.

IIRC, it was a multiple thousand round gunfight, which culminated in a bomb being dropped onto their roof from a police helicopter, resulting in the destruction of the entire neighborhood, about 60 homes by the resulting fire.

Apparently, their fortifications withstood all that incomming lead.
 
Rail road ties can soak up a lot of damage without falling apart. I imagine new green rail road ties ought to be better. However, 30.06 AP ammo would go through them I would think. Not sure about FMJ 30 cal. Of course, that doesn't mean the barrier would be less effective.

For the normal house hold, I would think sand bags would be the best option. You can buy plastic bags of sand at Home Depot or fill them with a shovel from your yard in an emergency. Just make sure you have spares after you set up your barrier so you can fill holes (if you are worried about that).

The main concern to me about a riot situation would be stray bullets. Not a big concern where I am.
 
Railroad Ties

I like the railroad tie idea.

You could build a seriously rustic-looking house with those.

Your average drive-by would pretty much go unnoticed. A siege with small arms would be difficult.

A basement with load-bearing walls made of that stuff would be pretty robust.

I wonder where one goes to price railroad ties . . .
 
I doubt it. Ever try to set a log on fire with a match ?

I'd do one room , sandbags , with a way out as well ...
 
Furthermore ... who are planning to defend against ? Rioters and gangbangers are not going to have .308's , they'll have handguns , sticks , beer , and television sets.
 
Take a look at . . . what?

Not in the mood to register simply to read an excerpt.

Care to quote the relevant part?
 
There's a company in Texas that makes bullet proof doors and wall panels.
The panels are fiberglass and kevlar.
In combination with a concrete wall or inside a brick/cinder block veneer they should provide protection from most small arms.
.50 BMG and larger are anti vehicle rounds and would be difficult to stop.
 
It would depend on your house/street/how much time/money you want to spend. Railroad ties can be gotten cheap/free IF you are willing to work for them. Same for bricks. Often I see adds for "aprox 250 cinder block brick (6" by 12" or some size) for sale cheap" All you have to do is load/haul and store them. IF SHTF pile them on floor to bottom of window and pour sand in them. (plastic on floor first).
 
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