Starting points for CFE223 and H335 under 55gr HP out of an AR

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Rushthezeppelin

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So I'm about to start load workup for CFE223 and H335 under 55gr Dogtown HPs. CFE 223 is showing 26.0-28.0gr load range on the Nosler site. H335 shows 23.0-25.0gr on noslers site. Oddly enough my Lyman 49th shows 24.3-27.0 for H335. Unfortunately Hodgons reloading center site is down atm (404 error :eek:) so I can't check them. Will be using CCI 41s in LC brass.

I was wondering though if anyone has good starting points for these that would be likely to cycle my action, a 16" carbine gas with SA BCG and standard buffer and spring. I'd rather not waste my time/components with loads that are too light to cycle the action. Anyone got some good minimums with these two powders to start my ladder testing with?
 
I haven't tested CFE223 as much as I would like to have done already, but in .223 with a few different 55gr bullets, I've had no problem with cycling using the 26.0gr starting charge. It hasn't shot well for me near the starting charge though. I don't think I started getting anything resembling a decent group until I hit 26.7gr. All of my testing was with 55gr Hornady V-Max, Z-Max, and SP. I also tried 50gr Sierra Blitz but the starting load for 50gr, on Hodgdon's site, is 27.0gr of CFE223. CFE223+50gr Blitz=no good in my rifle, but the starting load still cycled.

I have no experience with those Dog Town bullets or H335.
 
Thanks for the info on the CFE. Just wasn't sure where I should start as I know it took way above starting loads before I was getting cycling with IMR4895 (didn't start cycling fully till 24.5 and didn't start locking the bolt till 25.0).

Anybody got the low down on the H335?
 
Actually just shot up my first batch of 223 reloads using H335 under a 55gr FMJ bullet. Using the starting charge in the Lyman manual they still had sufficient power to cycle just fine and were accurate enough to use as a cheap plinking round.
 
I started at 26, and went to 28. It didn't get accurate until right around 27 for me in a 1:7 twist 16" barrel. I settled right around 27.4 gr.
 
I have done some extensive testing and shooting with CFE223 as well as H335 vs WC844.... and my go to accuracy round is the DTHP's I have lots of chrono data as well

Really Like the CFE223 and my goto is H335/WC844

Mine is a S&W Sport...

for CFE223 I ended up at 26.1gr... the 27gr where just as accurate so figured the 26gr was just fine...

For H335... 24.6gr and 25gr where the best for accuracy.. and settled on 25gr...

Now was Funny yesterday... Shot some CFE223 DT and was shooting pretty good.... Then ran some H335 DT and all where a bit low and left... so was obvious the differents in powders between the 2 loads..

Anyways hope this helps some..
 
Check manuals but I'd suggest with H335 and 55 grain bullets to start at 23 and look for best accuracy and velocity from 24-25 grains in an AR rifle. Hodgdon's data is most realistic in your AR.
 
I'll be honest here, i didn't have a ton of time to work up a load for h335 but it's pretty universally well known 25 grains is the best load from several sources and manuals so I just used that load data with great success. Love h335 it meters beautifully.
 
I used the starting load for CFE223 (26 grains) with a 52 grain BTHP in a Stag model 2 carbine and a Midlength build with an A2 stock. It cycled in both rifles very well. For me, the CFE seemed pretty dirty until I got around 27 grains and up. For blasting 223/556 reloads, I prefer 25 grains of 335 and a 55 grain bullet.
 
It's really hard to beat 25gr of H335 under a 55gr pill. I have a few different loads using H335 that shoot better in a few of my ARs, but 25gr of H335 works very well in my two Colts, and pretty good in the others.
 
juk said:
I used the starting load for CFE223 (26 grains) with a 52 grain BTHP in a Stag model 2 carbine and a Midlength build with an A2 stock. It cycled in both rifles very well. For me, the CFE seemed pretty dirty until I got around 27 grains and up. For blasting 223/556 reloads, I prefer 25 grains of 335 and a 55 grain bullet.
Click to expand...
Perhaps its because 27gr is the starting load for a 52gr pill, least thats what both Nosler and Hodgons online data shows. Sorry had to nitpick :p

Man doing this hand charging business is slow. Got 14 of the H335 loaded ranging 24.0-25.3. Bout to startup the CFE after a little smoke break, going to do 26.0-27.8 on that. Doing this on a Lee Safety is SLOW business, the difference between .1gr on that scale is so hard to see, glad I have good eyes. Trickling with a little 1/4 teaspoon measure taking tiny little bits at a time after initial drop from my Lee Auto Disk. Both do meter REALLY well in that thing though, even with my 1/4" bolt mic mod.

Kinda scary how almost exactly the same those two powders look. Going to have to keep the keg of what I'm using on the desk from now on (only had IMR4895 and W231/HP38 before which are VERY easy to tell apart). Best I can tell the CFE is ever so slightly larger granules and just a hair more dense. The W296 I picked up today also looks almost exactly the same (going to use that stuff in my 300 blk loads once I get the upper finished).

Hopefully this weekend I'll have a few hours free to do ladder testing with this stuff at the local 100yd indoor.
 
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You learn well Daniel Son! That's the reason we only keep the powder we are loading with on the bench. Hand measuring is a real PIA! I load all my .223's on a RL550b so is much faster. I would invest in a good pair of scales like the Dillon Eliminator Scale for $69.95 http://m.dillonprecision.com/mconte.../7/Dillon__039_s___039_Eliminator__039__Scale. If you plan to continue loading rifle calibers on a single stage or even a turret press a RCBS Charge Master works great. I use one for loading my magnum rifle loads. I set it for what I want to dispense, and once it drops the first charge I'm filling that case, and seating a bullet while it dispenses the next charge. I usually check every 10 rounds, but never find it off more than .1gr.
 
gahunter12 said:
You learn well Daniel Son! That's the reason we only keep the powder we are loading with on the bench. Hand measuring is a real PIA! I load all my .223's on a RL550b so is much faster. I would invest in a good pair of scales like the Dillon Eliminator Scale for $69.95 http://m.dillonprecision.com/mconte.../7/Dillon__039_s___039_Eliminator__039__Scale. If you plan to continue loading rifle calibers on a single stage or even a turret press a RCBS Charge Master works great. I use one for loading my magnum rifle loads. I set it for what I want to dispense, and once it drops the first charge I'm filling that case, and seating a bullet while it dispenses the next charge. I usually check every 10 rounds, but never find it off more than .1gr.
Click to expand...
Ya I'm contemplating a more expensive digi at some point. Had one of the little hornady ones and it started going wild on my last time I used it although it could have been having it next to a cold window with the heater on that was throwing it off. I turned the vent in my reloading room to face away from my bench so it isn't air movement...air is dead still on the side of the room with my bench.

I actually am loading on a Lee Pro 1000 (my only press atm). Just been taking the indexing rod out for load workup which basically turns it into 2 (or if I wanted 3) single stages in one machine. Got powder die and seating die setup on it. Certainly helps not having to change dies out but.

One thing that is bugging me though about these two powder is how low they fill the case, going to be hard to check by sight for no powder drops before bullet seating with this stuff. If only the Pro 1000 was just a little taller so I could peer further down into the case. At least they aren't so dense as to introduce the possibility of double charges (granted you have to really try hard to make a Pro 1000 double charge as long as you use the chain for the powder drop).
 
Used 55 grain vmax with cfe 223 and with starting load from hornady of 24.8 gr had no problem cycling my colt 6920 16 inch barrel that had an H2 buffer installed. Wasnt too accurate in my gun compared to higher loads but no problem cycling
 
Make sure you have a good LED light on your press. I have a battery powdered light that has 3 LEDs, and a flexable neck that was designed to mount on sewing machines mounted to the back of my Dillon. It's mounted with heavy duty Velcro. It's small to not get in the way, but very bright. I picked mine up at Walmart. You are correct with the tall cases I have to lean over a bit, but I can see the powder. I always use my press mounted powder measure, even on load work ups. Once I adjust my drop, and verify the weight I can load 10 rounds in just a couple minutes.

I would consider a good beam scale like the Dillon, or RCBS. The Dillon Eliminator is a little cheaper than the RCBS. Even with my Charge master I still do a second check with my Dillon scales every 20 rounds. Like I said, I only use the Charge Master for my 7mm, 300wm, and 300RUM loads. Just remember to warm the digital scales up before using. I usually turn mine on 30min before loading unless its cold like it is now. If its cold I turn up the heat in my shop, and power up the scales maybe 1hr before I decide to load.
 
I already have a desk lamp sitting as close to my press as possible. Might look into the LED though, hopefully it would give me enough light but still not sure with the height on my presses turret.

The one thing I hate most about that darn Hornady is it's battery powered and the auto shutoff is so quick so it's hard to keep it on long enough to warm up.
 
I have yet to have a low or no Powder Drop in my Lee Pro 1000......

1st drop can be a bit off... but after that it flows and flows and flows...

I stay nice and steady and give it a good handle thump to be sure the disk loads up equaly each drop...

so just stay steady and ya should be dialed.... Probobly the one issue with .223 is that ya cant see the powder.... I may get a Flex LED Light myself... we shall see
 
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