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Starting to feel foreign, the 1911.

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Hammerhead6814, Nov 9, 2009.

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  1. Hammerhead6814

    Hammerhead6814 Member

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    Taurus: Brazil.
    Rock Island Armory: Philippines.
    Norinco: China.
    Armscor: Philippines.
    American Classic: Made by Armscor.
    Firestorm: Made by Metro Arms, Philippines.

    This one is heart-breaking:

    Springfield Armory: Imbel makes the receivers and apparently some other parts :uhoh: . Imbel: Brazil!

    :banghead:

    The only company that as far as I can tell makes everything in the USA is Kimber!

    Don't get me wrong. It's not that I think 1911's made elsewhere in the world are sub-standard. I don't believe they make a bad pistol. If they did they wouldn't be getting glittering reviews. Rock Island Armory for one is an amazingly popular 1911 here in Western Missouri. I almost always see one at the range.

    But the 1911 is an American designed icon! What the AK-47 is to rifles, and the Remington 870 is to shotguns, the 1911 is to pistols. Yet I could only turn up one stinking company that makes a completely American 1911?

    When searching for companies those are the ones I found. Did I miss one? Any one at all?
     
  2. wditto

    wditto Member

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    ever hear of Colt's ?
     
  3. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

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  4. gb6491

    gb6491 Member

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    USFA
     
  5. jakk280rem

    jakk280rem Member

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    s&w? baer? nighthawk? ruger?
     
  6. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Its a global marketplace. Get over it. Look at where your GM, Ford or Chrysler is "made".
     
  7. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Unless my wildest dreams have come true and I am totally unaware of it, Ruger does not make a 1911.

    Also, isn't Para-Ordnance now headquartered in the US? Does Sig make their 1911 here, or is it an import?
     
  8. bdb benzino

    bdb benzino Member

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    American Classic II is the same pistol as the new Firestorm Government Deluxe, and they are both made by Metro Arms in P.I. They do not have a connection to Armscor although they are both in the same country. Both are good entry level 1911's. I have an RIA and a Metro Arms 1911 and neither of them has had 1 FTF or FTE at all, and both of them have 600+ rounds through them.
     
  9. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    AmericanClassic made by Metroarms not Armscor Its the Firestorm with a different roll mark. Both are well made and my AC will shoot right with my Colts costing nearly 2 times as much I bet with a little tuning would give my Dan Wesson fits on target range
     
  10. PsychoGlory

    PsychoGlory Member

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    To me the 1911 is an American icon, I refuse to buy a foreign made 1911. Especially when there is so many excellent made 1911s made right here. Colt, Dan Wesson, Kimber, S&W are just a few. I have been in the same boat, wanting a US made 1911 but not having the money. The best suggestion I can give is either buy used or just save your money until you can get the one you want.
     
  11. luigi

    luigi Member

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    Unfortunately, the US has been exporting skilled manufacturing jobs for years. it is expected that over 50% of US manufacturing jobs will be lost by 2016 (US Dept of Labor).
     
  12. zignal_zero

    zignal_zero Member

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    OP - i see you said "USA" and not "AMERICA" i was gonna get you, on that one, if you didn't LOL.

    people always say "i prefer an Amercian made 1911" when they see my Taurus and i'm like "it IS made in America" :-D
     
  13. BattleChimp Potemkin

    BattleChimp Potemkin Member

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    Two words: (and no offense to this)
    Who Cares?

    As mentioned earlier, take a look at your "yay America" "American built" cars: FILLED with foriegn labor and parts.

    Most of the guns out there have outsourced parts or processes. They all are great 1911s. I like my Rock Island, my Springer and my homebuilds. It's simple economics: The "USA only" built ones tend to be horribly expensive. The Rock Islands are a boon to the shooting world in that it allows the average shooter to have the most tunable and accurate platform for shooting. Without less expensive 1911s, I feel we would have a generation of shooters that think the 1911 is expensive and out of reach, destroying a generation we can carry on self-gunsmithing.

    I can't believe how many times I hear of folks wanting to send a 1911 back to the factory for repairs when they have so many 1911 smithing resources available. Inexpensive 1911s give shooters a new world of tuning, sort of like Hondas and import cars of the later 90s: Tons of parts for personalization. A shooter can now make a gun their own, CUSTOM if you will, but without spending thousands on a chunk of metal no better than the guns currently available.
     
  14. tprice

    tprice Member

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    Not surprising to see one of the most popular firearms designs in history (1911) made in many countries.

    Look at the AK. Heck, Russia is p-o'd that so many are made "outside of patent." The AK is made in dozens of countries - they have a worse problem then we do with the 1911!

    Like all things, to buy American does mean spending a bit more. A Kimber or Colt 1991 is twice the cost of a Philippine 1911. Can't speak for quality on their 1911's but the Kimber I have is a fine piece of work. However, as people are willing to spend a bit less for a (perceived) slight reduction in quality, the foreign pistols will sell.

    In my opinion, I have not handled any firearm made in the eastern hemisphere that matches an American made one for accuracy, trigger pull, fit and finish, and pride of ownership.
     
  15. rkamp

    rkamp Member

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    It is because of Colt that domestic and foreign manufacturers of the 1911 have flourished. Springfield Armory was the first to offer a quality, affordable 1911 albeit using Brazilian manufactured components to keep cost down. Colt responded with their bare bones 1991 A1, and "enhanced" models in the mid 90's. Kimber then entered the picture and probably offers the best (quality, price, options) pistol manufactured in the U.S.

    Because of competition/capitalism we have a wealth of choices to choose from now, but little money to pay for ammo or range time. :D
     
  16. kamagong

    kamagong Member

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    The reason why 1911s are made all over the world is because they are so popular. That is a good thing. Plus you'll never hear me complain about having choices. There are plenty of American-made 1911s out there, you just have to be willing to shell out the cash. And as good as some of those imported 1911s are, the best ones are still made in America.
     
  17. bang_bang

    bang_bang Member

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    Correct...moved down to Charlotte NC I do believe.
     
  18. weisse52

    weisse52 Member

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    I do....Colt.
     
  19. Hammerhead6814

    Hammerhead6814 Member

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    Colt is still selling 1911's to the public? S&W has a current lineup? I know that, at one time, they did. But I haven't seen either NIB.

    Once again, it's not that I mind a foreign 1911. Everyone made them at one point (Argentina, Germany, Britain even).

    It's just that I can't believe there are not more American companies that build them (in current production)! It's our design and yet, we seem to have only one (current) manufacturer!

    Para moved to NC? Well, I'll be damned. We've reached two that CURRENTLY build them.
     
  20. kamagong

    kamagong Member

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    How familiar are you with current 1911s? There are several companies that make their 1911s right here in America. IIRC Kimber, Colt, Smith & Wesson, Sig, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk Custom are all domestically manufactured.
     
  21. rellascout

    rellascout member

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    Get over it. Your complaint is not valid because there are tons of 1911 makers inside the US. Colt, Dan Wesson, Fusion, Sig, Les Baer, Wilson etc..... as others have pointed out. Yes the bottom of the barrel 1911s are made in foreign countries were labor is lower. It makes sense welcome to the 21st century. The global market is calling they want your money. LOL These lower end pistols require that they are made outside the US where labor is less.

    You sound like the people from the American textile industries to complain that no one makes jeans in the US anymore but are buying $15 Lee jeans at Walmart. You are a typical American consumer. You want the American classic made by Americans but you don't want to play the money required to have it that way. There are tons of US made 1911s but they cost a little more than the $450 RIA. You might not be aware of them because they are not the cheapest gun in the case but please don't leave them out of the discussion. Stop looking at the cheapest 1911s on the market and pay for the US labor which you claim to support. Get a Dan Wesson or a Colt or quit bitching. Put your money where your mouth is.

    P.S. Ruger for some reason is considering making a 1911. IMHO I would rather send my money to the Philippines vs support a company that lobbied for the assault weapons ban.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
  22. Demitrios

    Demitrios Member

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    Rock Island Armory is owned by Armscor.
     
  23. BattleChimp Potemkin

    BattleChimp Potemkin Member

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    weisse52,

    I understand where you are coming from on that. Colt is (or was, whatever someone's viewpoint on it is) a darn fine piece of metal. However, I feel that Colt's quality has dropped. I look at the internals of older (series 70) Colts and they are beautiful. New ones have horrible tooling marks, plastic parts (while not a bad thing, it is a deviation from the old standard that I hold them to). The new ones are generally something I would not like owning, given the degradation in percieved quality with the usage of parts that were once metal. Once again, while not in the debate, but I feel they have strayed FAR from the original that has made them full of glory and haunt the stories of our grandparents and parents.

    Also, for what I have seen in regards to the "step back" (please, once again, in my opinion!), there is quite a lot to be left in pricing. They are still relatively expensive for a frill free model compared to a Springfield Loaded. A forged frame Milspec or GI that has the same amount of frills as the Colt standard 1911 is 200-300 dollars less expensive and lacks the plastic components of the Colt. The metalworking is roughly par to new Colts, but much less expensive comparatively. The mystique of the Colt is gone in my mind, gone along with the hopes of having an original, but new Colt, made to the old specs.

    IMHO (no attack meant or even disregard sent), when I was looking for a factory 1911 (the few I have built were nice, but I wanted one I didn't have to horse with :D ), I had a choice at the time for a good ol'fashioned military pattern 1911: A Colt 1991 or a Springfield GI. The Colt 1991 was a 500 dollar gun, VERY used and had several issues that would need attention to immediantly. The Springfield was a NIB gun and stainless (while not GI spec, it was VERY pretty). I put my money down on the Springer. Looking back on it, it was a decent investment on my part. It joined the ranks of several of my builds, a lonely Rock Island .38 Stupor ( :D ), and a wonderful Sistema.
     
  24. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    (duplicate)(THR is jerking me around a bit.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
  25. rellascout

    rellascout member

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    If you are paying $200 to $300 more for a Colt 80 series then a Springer Mil spec or GI you are paying too much for your Colt.
     
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