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Stealth baseball bat?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by RyanM, Jul 7, 2008.

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  1. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    With all the recent talk on sticks (at least it seems that way to me), I had an idea. Wood can really only be so dense. Most hardwoods top out at a specific gravity of about 1 (equal in density to water). But what about something like this?

    http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1089&step=4&showunits=inches&id=195&top_cat=60

    Specific gravity of 2.71. A 33 inch length of that would weigh 31 ounces, so 1 ounce more than an adult baseball bat of the same length. But at 7/8" diameter, the force would be concentrated on a much smaller area. Plus, the weight isn't mostly at one end, so it would swing considerably faster.

    Sure, you could go to the hardware store and just get a steel pipe that would weigh about the same per inch, but solid aluminum just has more class. Sort of like the "redneck katana" (3 feet of rebar with duct and skateboard tape for a grip), but lighter and more maneuverable.

    And there'd be all kinds of ways to disguise a plain 7/8" diameter metal stick, if you feel the need. That'd be a helluva broom handle.

    And I seem to remember reading a few years back that some meter readers swear by a 3-4 foot length of the thickest wall 3/4"-1" aluminum pipe you can find, for "discouraging" aggressive dogs. This'd be like that, turned up a few notches.
     
  2. alwilliam

    alwilliam Member

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    I use 6061 in a lot of ways..its a good basic metal.

    Now...ws127 alloy is a great alloy and super strong.
     
  3. Goblin

    Goblin Member

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    I keep a junior little league alum bat in the house as a last ditch weapon!! That thing swings fast and easy!!!:)
     
  4. highorder

    highorder Member

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    Not to mention you can get one for $20.00 at any big box sporting goods store.... and its a ball bat, not some questionable weapon.
     
  5. Pax Jordana

    Pax Jordana Member

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    Mechanically.. sure, it'd work. Heck it'd pack a hell of a wallop.

    Legally I dunno. A tee ball bat.. that's for teeball. Four feet of solid aluminum is.. what? Are you building a robot? Allergic to pine sap? better think up something good for when the cop goes, so what'd you hit him with?
     
  6. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Go to the hardware store or even the tool aisles at someplace like Home Depot. You'll see scads of hitty, stabby, cutty stuff. Hitty, stabby, cutty stuff that can be used for other more mundane stuff besides being hitty, stabby, or cutty and generally doesn't provoke a lot of questioning from the po-po.
     
  7. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Now I'm confused. A "tactical" shotgun with 8 rails, a flashlight, laser sight, red dot scope, night vision scope, 3 vertical foregrips, an old Knoxx drum magazine, and a Glock duct taped to the stock, is just peachy for home defense. But an aluminum stick is not. If you want to put great big holes in someone, you can use anything you want, because a justifiable shoot is a justifiable shoot. But if you just want to crack their head, maybe because you might be moving into a tiny apartment with paper thin walls soon, you need to use a farm implement or sporting equipment.
     
  8. wheelgunslinger

    wheelgunslinger Member

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    depends on who you ask.
    Some people think anything besides a break action 410 festooned with hello kitty stickers is a lever for the DA to pry you out of your home and into a jail cell. Much less a tactical 12 gauge belt fed highly optioned hd anti-intruder battery.
     
  9. Pax Jordana

    Pax Jordana Member

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    Ryan,

    I understand your reaction, and I'm not thrilled with it either. ANY act of self-defense may have consequences depending on....where you live. as always. Accept the fact that to a prosecution lawyer, your shotgun has a bunch of little red infants stamped on it, and the 1911 was invented because Colt wasn't happy killing only six puppies before he had to reload.

    Thing is, lots of laws protect guns, despite our constant alarmism. Not as many protect knives, and if you get into cudgels and stuff then the laws are those regarding 'other weapons for offensive use' or however the law words it (I'm too lazy to google.) So yes, sadly, the laws concerning firearms and NFW's may well be two sides of the coin.

    Use a teddy bear in self-defense and you're still in a pile of crap. All I meant to say, and you'll see lots of people saying it if you read back, is that there are ways to make that pile shallower.

    ETA: as a weapon, heck yeah it'd be mean. When people say 'how about an aluminum bat versus a wood bat for SD?' it all comes down to your sense of style :evil:
     
  10. EHCRain10

    EHCRain10 Member

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    gotta think about how easy it is to explain a wooden cane, but not a metal rod, unless you can make the rod appear like a medical cane
     
  11. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    I'm really not sure how much shallower the pile would be come if I used sporting equipment or a tool or something.

    Why do you own only a five-iron? Why was it propped in a corner instead of in a bag, with a head cover? You've never even played a game of golf, so why do you own a club?

    Why was your baseball bat lying around instead of locked in a closet? This baseball glove right next to it is brand new and never been used. This baseball shows no sign of ever having been hit. Obviously, you don't play baseball, and owned the bat solely for bustin' heads. And furthermore, you attempted to hide your intentions from police investigators, by buying related sports paraphernalia.

    Why was a claw hammer buried in the "victim's" head? When was the last time you hammered or pried anything? The apartment complex you live in forbids nailing things to the walls. Obviously, you have no legitimate reason to own a hammer.

    Really, I'm a believer in using the best tool for the job. If I want to hit a piece of cork wrapped in leather that's thrown at high speed, I'll use a baseball bat. If I want to hit a tiny little white ball with dents in it lying on the ground, I'll use a golf club. If I want to hit a nail, hammer. But for apartment defense, when I'd like to have the option of grabbing something that can't go through multiple walls, really seems like a metal stick would work good. Heavier than a wooden stick, faster and more maneuverable than a bat, classier than a pipe.

    Probably would make a helluva cane, too, if I bent one end. Wouldn't have to worry about it flexing or breaking, ever. Does aluminum alloy soften if it's heated with a blowtorch, and then go back to full strength when it cools?
     
  12. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    I own a hammer because I sometimes drive nails. I own wrenches to to tighten things. I own a hatchet and machete for cutting wood and brush. I really do all these things and I would feel comfortable having any of them in my home or car for that reason.
    "Stealth" weapons that have no other obvious purpose aren't really that stealthy, are they?
     
  13. Pax Jordana

    Pax Jordana Member

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    OK, I have no idea how to start at this, but instead of getting down on ryan we should find someone who can weigh in on the feasibility of a solid aluminum cane - from there, the point is rather well settled, wouldn't you say?

    aluminummetallurgistsandstructuralengineers.cn is down - who's good on this stuff?
     
  14. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    If by "stealth" you mean something that is unrecognizable as a weapon in a court of law, when it's bent and bloodstained, there is no such thing.

    I meant something more like something that isn't recognizable as an effective weapon on cursory inspection. Something that a burglar is unlikely to grab immediately on entering, in case I come back at an inopportune moment. What percent of burglars is it that go straight to the kitchen and get a knife, first thing on entering a house?

    A baseball bat is a baseball bat and a wrench is a wrench. It's pretty hard to hide what they are, and everyone with double digit or higher IQ knows that stuff like that makes great improvised weaponry.

    An aluminum stick with a broom head duct taped to the end, however, looks like a crummy broom, and pretty much everyone knows that broom handles are made out of pieces of wood that weren't good enough for the toothpick factory, or paper-thin metal sometimes, and thus make poor impact weapons. Brooms these days will bend and/or break if you sweep too hard, let alone clubbing someone on the head. In fact, wasn't there a video some months ago of some guy stabbing a jewelry store guard, while the owner attempted to beat him on the head with a broom handle, which just bent like a piece of cooked spaghetti?

    If you start out with a plain old aluminum dowel rod, the possibilities are endless. Especially since a solid rod can be turned down on a lathe or otherwise made into different shapes, unlike a pipe. Some people talk about having a gun in every room of the house. If you can't afford that, a hidden-in-plain-sight aluminum stick with the heft of a baseball bat in every room might be at least some comfort, and wouldn't look as strange as having a different golf club or a pitchfork or something in every room. And it's only $10 per stick plus shipping. People pay four times that for a decent wooden cane that's less than 40% as heavy.
     
  15. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    Threaded

    Well, if you have access to a lathe, why would you want to duct tape an aluminum shaft to a broom head?

    The wooden broom handles are threaded at the end. So, match that thread, and off you go. It's clearly a replacement for that broom handle you broke, and it only makes sense that this one is stouter than the flimsy one you replaced.

    Sweeping is still legal, most places.
     
  16. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Pfft. Go to your local ARC or Goodwill or Garage Sale and you can find bats for under a couple of bucks. For playing, I want a new bat. For smiting, any old bat will do.

    I sort of know what your saying, but the weight forward design of a bat lets you build up more speed, and the size of the bat lets you transfer a good deal more energy from the bat to the crook than a metal stick would. Also a good aluminum bat is going to have far more surface area than a metal stick at less weight. I am not anti-stick by any stretch, but for purely defensive purposes, I think the bat is superior. Walking down the street is where the stick comes into it's own, as walking sticks are common and abundant, to include metal shafted type things. For class and style, I would prefer an Irish walking stick, but whatever.

    Interestingly, I made a post on the Kukhri the other day and said almost exactly the same thing about the transfer of energy and weight forward design.
     
  17. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    When considering an pure impact weapon I advise folks to look at pre-firearms weapons. These underwent a thousand years of development in perfecting the design and construction and were even used in WWI.

    As an amusing anecdote, an SF buddy of mine that spent time in Somalia reported that the silvery aluminum baseball bat turned out to be a much better tool for crowd control than M4s. Everyone had a gun, but a shiny club made quite an "impression" upon anyone getting too close.
     
  18. B00SS

    B00SS Member

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    I think the walking stick is a great idea. You can beat up the end a little and ==wala== "I've used it for walking."
     
  19. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    I have mentioned a few times before that Ax handles were extremely effective both in a deterrence role and in actual use when I was in Somalia during Operation Restore Hope. If someone thinks they are about to get cracked in the grape by an ax handle or a bat, they are very likely to move it along.
     
  20. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    It's sort of the opposite. If you whack someone with an object, and the object stops, 100% of the energy is transferred. A bat won't transfer a greater amount of energy, unless it starts with more.

    And for a given amount of energy (when you're talking about the amount that a human arm can generate), greater concentration of force results in greater injury. Hitting someone with a rowboat paddle (the flat part) vs. a bat vs. a stick vs. a sword. They'll all break bones about equally well for X pounds of force, but the smaller the impact area, the more damage you get to soft tissues.

    A lot of people that like slapjacks advocate using the edge, because of the greater concentration of force. Total force remains the same, but force per area increases dramatically.
     
  21. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    well, I am no physics major, so I will just assume you are right. I still would rather have the bat, though. Practical experience tells me that I can hit a baseball farther with a 28 oz bat that I could with a walking stick made of metal, so it stands to reason that I will be able to clock someone better with it.
     
  22. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom Member

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    I still prefer to use a lead pipe in the conservatory.

    -Professor Plum
     
  23. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    If the "stick" you're swinging has the same mass center then the only thing that changes with the force applied is the length and the contact surface.

    If, OTOH, the "stick" is weighted forward you move the mass center forward increasing your angular momentum and increasing the force applied (assuming you're hitting everything about 4" down from the end of the stick). Bats, Kukris, Axs all hit "harder" because the center of mass is moved forward out towards the end of the "stick" being swung.
     
  24. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Hso said what I was trying to say in a much more intelligent manner.
     
  25. 1010011010

    1010011010 Member

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    High strength aluminum alloy parts are often mechanically bonded because welding makes the metal brittle. If you're just lookin' for a thwackin' stick, though, you can probably find an alloy that will work.

    If we're talking about the physics of striking someone, a solid rod is not the way to go, because most of the force you build up (and transfer upon strike) goes to angular momentum. A lightweight rod or tube with weight at the end would work best.

    A stabilized wood dowel with one end drilled out and hammered full of lead would work well and probably be lighter and cheaper than an aluminum rod of the same size/weight.
     
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