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Steel bbs in rifled barrels

Discussion in 'Airguns' started by NRADAVE, Dec 18, 2021.

  1. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Looking for advice, thinking of shooting bbs in a Daisy 880 or 910 or some other model of rifled barrel pellet/bb pump up gun.
    I know it’s not a popular combo. Just wondered if anyone has experimented with the new larger bbs, etc. Don’t own one—yet. But for the price,lookin at a 901. Anyone have thoughts ?
    Advice? Experience?
     
  2. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    After doing testing with .177 pellets, I shot thousands of crosman Copperhead BBs out of Crosman Legacy 1000.

    With 4-5 pumps, minute of soup/tomato cans at 20'-30' and would punch through steel cans.

    I gifted it to a retiring coworker to be enjoyed by his young grandsons.

    Now, I am looking to buy another Legacy 1000 or Crosman 2100 with metal receiver (instead of plastic) to shoot Crosman Black Widow BBs claimed to be slightly larger and more consistent in roundness for greater accuracy - https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-Blac...=1639867034&sprefix=black+bb's,aps,175&sr=8-3
     
  3. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    Steel BB's and rifling do not mix!

    DM
     
  4. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Thx guys. I realize steel bbs won’t “take” The rifling as a lead pellet will.
    But I have Drozdmax with rifled barrel that fires bbs quite well. But if you measure the barrels ID, it’s smaller than the typical Daisy/Crosman barrel.
    The bb (Daisy Std Wmart) fits the barrel and allows it to put some spin on the bb. The larger dia bbs now available are too big and won’t feed.
    With various dia. Bbs now on the market, can’t help but wonder if with right combo—-bb to barrel dia, can you now put spin on the bb?
    Thought maybe someone has investigated this possibility.
     
    starling and jmars like this.
  5. Bronco72

    Bronco72 Member

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    Buy lead BB's for a rifled barrel; if you want to shoot BB's !!
     
    DM~ likes this.
  6. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Administrator Staff Member

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    If you do, keep in mind that they are significantly larger than standard steel BBs and may jam the feeding mechanism of some guns designed for steel BBs. If you're going to use lead BBs you may want to load them one at a time like pellets are typically loaded in the BB/pellet guns.
     
  7. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    JohnK, yea, the “Marksman” bb runs several thousands larger than any other brand I’ve micd. They run fine in the daisy RR/buck shot tubes. U picup velocity and accuracy. They won’t work in many of the air pistols I own nor would they feed in my Drozd.
    I’m interested in a device or method to put spin on a steel bb. There’s a few air pistols that imploy a “hopup” device and really improve the accuracy/trajectory. I’ve experimented with the RR daisy shot tubes, trying to spin the bb using pieces of “rubber” imbedded in the shot tubes. No luck.
    The Drozd, has a “Jim C.” Aftermarket barrel on it. It is rifled and very accurate with the Daisy std steel bbs. Best as I can tell, the bore ID is somewhat smaller than a Daisy. It may be the rifling has been developed special and is quite different than barrels built to shoot lead pellets.
    So, I don’t have a rifled air gun to play with. For about $70 I can buy the Daisy 901. Which seems a notch better quality than others in this category.
    Like to : see if the larger bbs will fit the barrel. If so, will the tighter fit spin the bb—-? I have no interest in the lead bbs, got plenty of good lead pellet firing guns.
    Hoping some one out there has had these same mental issues and could offer me some help—before I have to hide another air gun from my wonderful wife :).
     
  8. Bronco72

    Bronco72 Member

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    You can buy lead BB's the same diameter as the steel ones!
    One example http://prntscr.com/23qlkms

    As with any bullet or projectile, you have to make sure that you get the right stuff !!!
     
  9. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Thx for info. Cans at 30 ft is acceptable. Haven’t seen the black widow bbs. Will order to try in my RRiders. Like to know the Dia. The Marksmen are much larger than anything I’ve mic’d.
    Thinking of buying an 880 or 901 barrel ($10) just to mess with. I assume they are the same daisy pt#. Thx and please keep me posted, at 76 not a whole lot of other things to do :)
     
  10. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    They are advertised as .177" but due to more consistent roundness and smoothness of black coated finish, claim to be more accurate than other zinc/copper BBs that are not consistently round with irregular dents and surface imperfections ($3.99/1000) - https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-Black-Widow-BBS/dp/B07ND6HHV3

    Crosman Black Widow is competing product to Umarex Hornady Black Diamond with advertised "Black anodized finish reduces surface variation for maximized speed, accuracy and distance" ($4.99/1500) - https://www.amazon.com/Umarex-177-B...ST0KGCU/ref=dp_fod_1?pd_rd_i=B00ST0KGCU&psc=1

    What prompted my interest in these black coated BBs was large number of positive reviews that reported greater accuracy compared to other zinc/copper BBs shot in various BB guns.

    But they are quite costly when I could buy 6000 Copperheads for $10 and minute of soup cans at 30' with Legacy 1000 is good enough for me to think twice about buying them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
  11. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Well, I’ve got a tube of the Widows ordered. Interested to see the actual dia.
    Experimented with the Hornaday stuff, they’re same size as the wmart Daisy bb. And even with the black coating didn’t find them any more concentric Than zinc coated bbs. The steel core still has be round —or any coating can’t correct the problem.
    Wonder if concentricity Isn’t a major issue. Certainly would be in a cartridge.
    .
     
  12. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Got a tube of the Crosman Black Widows, disappointing. Same size as over counter Daisy zinc bbs. Roundness is about same also. Accuracy about the same, also.
    I’ve ordered (100) 4.5 mm (.177”) dia ground steel ball bearings. They should be dead nuts dia and concentricity. Maybe for $10 bucks, I can decide whether these qualities can make a difference in a Daisy RRider. If it does, at $ 0.10 a shot—I’ll need Joe to send another stimulus check. .
     
  13. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Not sure how worn the smooth bore Daisy barrel is along with seal to produce pressure but if that's the case, it may not matter how consistently round the BBs are and you may need new barrel/seal. Also at lower pressure of 350 fps, not sure if quality of BBs would improve accuracy that much. (Accuracy was all over the place with BBs until I got to 4-5 pumps with Legacy 1000 around 500+ fps)

    I had other pellet rifles I got good accuracy with at 30-50 yards but decided to get the Legacy 1000 as cheap BB plinker at closer distance of 20'-30' so wear of rifling by shooting steel BBs was not a concern. I did read good reviews of Daisy zinc BBs and planned to test but 6000 BB bottle of Crosman Copperhead seemed to last forever.

    Over Christmas, thought about getting an adult Red Ryder but concern over lower 350 fps producing accuracy stopped me from buying one. I have been looking at other BB guns with particular interest in Crosman 2100 (which has same barrel as Legacy 1000 but with metal receiver) so when opportunity came up, I gladly gifted the Legacy 1000 with 4x32 scope to a friend's grandkids so I could replace with Crosman 2100.

    I am still planning to test Black Widow along with Hornady Black Diamond but alongside Daisy zinc and Copperhead BBs as I am just looking for minute of soup cans at 20'-30' (Which Copperhead already produce) and perhaps more but curious how much more accurate other BBs are.
     
  14. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Barrels (shot tubes) are in good condition, have spare tubes. You only get about 275fps from any Daisy RRider/buck. Need the air tube bored out and or one of Cobalts springs. Get up around 350+ with the mods.
    That’s interesting, improved accuracy with more velocity. I haven’t found much difference in any bbs except the “Marksmen”. Much bigger , u get another 25fps and better groups. I shoot off bags, indoors at 33ft.
    Still like to try the 901. Best looking gun in that price range.
     
  15. Septicdeath

    Septicdeath Member

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    Daisy ground match shot. Best accuracy in any bb gun
     
    Belld416 likes this.
  16. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Due to Constant concentricity and diameter issues with commercial BBs and resulting unacceptable accuracy, I ordered Some 4.5mm ball bearings 100 balls/$10), These mic’d .1678”, Slightly undersized but excellent concentricity.
    Spent last several nasty days shooting test groups with my #1 RRider.
    Shooting is done off bags, at 33 ft, with scope and indoors, shot tube is cleaned (degreased) before each group.
    The best groups come from The Marksman brand bb, typically I’ll get 8 out of 10 in 1 1/2” but almost always get a couple to fly out to 2” or more.
    The ball bearings grouped under 1 1/4” —-with no flyers. Which tells me, I think, that’s as good as that RRider is going to shoot —without further modifications To the gun.
    This rifle has a bored out air tube (Cobalts), factory spring and fires at about 300 FPS. The only other mods is I’ve wrapped the shot tube with two coatings of “rubber” shrink wrap—an attempt to reduce shot tube “bounce”. Still not sure of the affects.
    Comment/thoughts please.
     
  17. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    Sorry, the .1678 should be .1768”. Dyslexic
     
    45CalPal likes this.
  18. Belld416

    Belld416 Member

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    The Daisy 408 dual ammo pistol has a rifled barrel and you can shoot BB’s or .177 pellets through it. Accuracy is pretty decent with both as long as you don’t try to stretch your distance too far.
     
  19. 45CalPal

    45CalPal Member

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    WOW!, I can honestly say I have never heard of, nor thought of a BB gun barrel being rifled. Nice!! :)
     
  20. NRADAVE

    NRADAVE Member

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    45calpal/belld416. I have this Fantasy, a Daisy RRider shooting steel bbs —-straight . In one of these dreams, is a barrel (shot tube) that imparts spin on the bb.
    In the airsoft guns they use a ”hopup” device. Works great. Haven’t been able to mimic this using the Daisy parts.
    Next thought, use rifling to get the spin. I have Drozd with a rifled barrel and it
    Fires steel bbs straight out to 25 yds, about all you can ask of a 5 gm bb.
    Looking thru many other people’s experiences with the pump up gun rifled barrels, hybrid pellet/bb, you see mixed results. Reports vary widely.
    Thinking of buying a daisy 880 or 901 barrel, and see if I could fit it into the RRider ?? Hate to buy a pump gun, but may have to, just to satisfy my Curiosity Thoughts?
     
  21. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Crosman Legacy 1000 firing Copperhead BBs (.171"-.173" with most measuring .172") shot point of aim with 4-5 pumps out to 10 yards. At 15 yards, maintained minute of soda/small soup can. At 20-25 yards, maintained minute of large canned tomato top/bottom and would punch right through the tin can.

    At 30-35 yards, I could mostly hit Costco plastic nut container/2 Liter bottles with 6 pumps.

    Accuracy may be better with larger diameter BBs.
     
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