Steel/brass?

Steel or brass?

  • Steel isnt that bad and it saves $

    Votes: 72 63.7%
  • Its awedul id never use it no matter the cost

    Votes: 41 36.3%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
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rcmodel .....Seriouslay though, Steel Commie Ammo is for Commie designed guns....
.........American guns & most American cartridges were not designed for it.
They were designed for brass cases......
Really?:scrutiny:
American ammunition manufacturers have been producing STEEL cased cartridges for decades. I've got a box of Winchester .45acp with ugly gray cases around her somewhere.

Steel works fine.
Brass works fine.
Aluminum works fine.

If you don't reload, it don't matter.....shoot cheap and you shoot more often.
 
As a few others have mentioned it's not the material that the case is made from. It's the other factors that count for more assuming that the casing is made from a type of mild steel which is suitable. Bullet shape, consistency of charge, reliability of the primer, etc, etc. All these things have to come together in a quality manner. Brass vs steel ON ITS OWN matters little.

Besides, it matters less to me as I reload. And even at the cost saving I can still reload far more cheaply than buying steel case factory ammo. So it's pretty much brass only. I'd have no qualms about shooting decent steel cases but over time the coatings would scratch off and the cases rust so at most I'd get one or maybe two reloads from them assuming they use boxer primers. On a rainy match day I wouldn't even bother to pick them up due to the wetness producing rust issues. But brass avoids this concern.
 
Which brings a question to mind, has anyone here reloaded steel? I was wondering since brass and steel would have different compression and springback properties. Also it seems even if they are possible to reload there should be more wear on dies.
 
The reason we use brass in the first place is because it's malleable. This means that as it is being fired, it easily swells up and seals the chamber. Most of the reason steel runs dirtier is that it doesn't do that as well.

As for reloading it, I suppose you CAN, but the problem that comes to mind is that dies are steel, (or carbide,) and they do wear out eventually. and steel is harder than brass, so it would likely make them wear out faster. Or scratch them in ways that might leave marks in the dies which might deform the brass cases.
 
Which brings a question to mind, has anyone here reloaded steel?

I reload steel (Wolf) .45ACP cases to use on my friend's ranch where I won't recover much if any of the brass because of the weeds. No issues at all, although I only reload them once. Most of the other steel cases are Berdan primed and not practical to reload.


Back when the Wolf .45ACP was $109/1000 and CCI Blazer 9mm was $87/1000 I pretty much quit reloading. Pretty much only shooting reloads for handguns these days.

The steel used in steel cased ammo is dead soft, Pick up a steel empty and a brass empty of the same caliber, crush them with a small pair of pliers, I think you find the steel is a bit easier to deform.
 
It depends on the gun. It's possibly harder on the extractor, but it's an inexpensive part. If you plan on shooting a lot with steel cased ammo, carry a brass brush with you for the chamber. It'll prevent ejection problems because steel case doesn't form a tight enough seal and creates carbon blow back.
 
Depends on the gun... None of my .223's like steel. half my .308s do... I would never dream of buying brass 7.62x39.
 
I think that probably the best answer is aluminum for common pistol sizes. I have been told that they reload like brass, probably fewer times before they show signs of wear. I have shot a few that a friend reloaded, had no issues.
Aluminum is not expensive or in any supply shortage danger. So, why should we use brass that is expensive and there is higher demand for copper in other areas. Just look a home depo and see the copper tubing being locked up.
One study that I read showed that aluminum casings were about 20% stronger, so should be good for the high pressure calibers. Just as I see continues pressure onz several fronts to use bullets that are fully jacketed. I expect to see more plated and more nylon jackets.
 
I reload so I don't use steel cases.
The only issue I've heard is if you have a hot barrel, chamber a round, and then let the barrel cool down. It melts the coating and glues the case to the chamber wall.
 
Tie a length of twine to a $4, 200lb Harbor Freight magnet and drag the steel seas

Why would I want to do that? When you find the magnet that picks up brass then your idea has merit. The steel cases rust to nothing in a couple of years so we don't worry about it.
 
You would have saved a huge amount by reloading the brass ammunition.

The most expensive part of a round is the brass case, and they can be used multiple times.

You will lose some calibers before you can wear out a case.
 
To reload, wally, to reload.

I've already reloaded them once, I've plenty of brass to reload and shoot where I can find most of them. There is a guy at our club who says he reloads them "just like brass -- until they split". I'm not quite that bold or short of brass.


All my Wolf steel case .45 is from back when it was $109-120/1000, down to my last three or four cases. I stocked as deep as I had room to store it, best "investment" in a long time!
 
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The reason we use brass in the first place is because it's malleable. This means that as it is being fired, it easily swells up and seals the chamber. Most of the reason steel runs dirtier is that it doesn't do that as well.

Obturation. The process of the casing expanding inside the chamber and creating a seal is called obturation. You are correct by the way.


To expand on this: there are reasons to or not to use steel cased ammunition. In a "commie gun", the chambers are actually cut smaller than western chambers. That's why any AK you pick up will not headspace correctly with headspace guages.

Go gauge won't go. A live round - or a dummy will though.

The commie guns are made to use steel cased ammo: steel expands LESS than brass, so to counteract that they cut their chambers smaller. Technically this could cause excess chamber pressure if you threw in a brass cartridge which wants to expand more against a tight chamber wall but commie calibers aren't high pressure.

So in commie guns steel ammo works just fine. In western guns which have chambers cut for brass ammo: steel causes problems in two ways.


1. Because steel casings obturate less, they won't seal the chamber as well during ignition.

This is what has given rise to the myth about lacquer coated casings dirtying chambers. the idea being that the lacquer or zinc flakes or melts off onto the chamber walls gunking up your chamber. Trust me: you can't melt that **** off the casings without a torch and by the time you get it to start melting - so does the brass.

This is a myth, flat out. The reason the chamber is getting dirty as hell is because the steel casings, in a chamber not cut specifically FOR steel casings: doesn't completely seal the chamber. So there's a lot of excess carbon build up because the chamber isn't sealed.


2. Steel has less natural lubricity than brass and if often not polished as well as brass casings.

Steel, unless carefully polished: isn't as smooth as brass. It never is, actually. Brass and steel polished to the same degree have different levels of lubricity and surface resistance. There's a reason polishing the chamber improves function: it decreases resistance to a cartridge entering the chamber and resistance of a cartridge being removed from the chamber.

Well: if you have a smooth chamber but feed it fairly rough surfaced ammunition - it's just the same as if you had smooth ammo and a rough chamber.


When you combine dirtier burning comblock powder, with rougher casings and create undue chamber fouling due to a pour chamber seal during ignition: you have a recipe for malfunctions.

The weird thing is: 2 types of guns work really well with steel cased ammo.

Cheapo comblock guns made to use steel cased ammo and guns with exceptionally tight and ridiculously smooth chambers. These guns are usually very expensive.

In general, steel ammo will work just fine. You'll just have to clean your guns a lot more often to adjust for the fact that the chamber will foul much faster.
 
Obturation. The process of the casing expanding inside the chamber and creating a seal is called obturation. You are correct by the way.


To expand on this: there are reasons to or not to use steel cased ammunition. In a "commie gun", the chambers are actually cut smaller than western chambers. That's why any AK you pick up will not headspace correctly with headspace guages.

Go gauge won't go. A live round - or a dummy will though.

The commie guns are made to use steel cased ammo: steel expands LESS than brass, so to counteract that they cut their chambers smaller. Technically this could cause excess chamber pressure if you threw in a brass cartridge which wants to expand more against a tight chamber wall but commie calibers aren't high pressure.

So in commie guns steel ammo works just fine. In western guns which have chambers cut for brass ammo: steel causes problems in two ways.


1. Because steel casings obturate less, they won't seal the chamber as well during ignition.

This is what has given rise to the myth about lacquer coated casings dirtying chambers. the idea being that the lacquer or zinc flakes or melts off onto the chamber walls gunking up your chamber. Trust me: you can't melt that **** off the casings without a torch and by the time you get it to start melting - so does the brass.

This is a myth, flat out. The reason the chamber is getting dirty as hell is because the steel casings, in a chamber not cut specifically FOR steel casings: doesn't completely seal the chamber. So there's a lot of excess carbon build up because the chamber isn't sealed.


2. Steel has less natural lubricity than brass and if often not polished as well as brass casings.

Steel, unless carefully polished: isn't as smooth as brass. It never is, actually. Brass and steel polished to the same degree have different levels of lubricity and surface resistance. There's a reason polishing the chamber improves function: it decreases resistance to a cartridge entering the chamber and resistance of a cartridge being removed from the chamber.

Well: if you have a smooth chamber but feed it fairly rough surfaced ammunition - it's just the same as if you had smooth ammo and a rough chamber.


When you combine dirtier burning comblock powder, with rougher casings and create undue chamber fouling due to a pour chamber seal during ignition: you have a recipe for malfunctions.

The weird thing is: 2 types of guns work really well with steel cased ammo.

Cheapo comblock guns made to use steel cased ammo and guns with exceptionally tight and ridiculously smooth chambers. These guns are usually very expensive.

In general, steel ammo will work just fine. You'll just have to clean your guns a lot more often to adjust for the fact that the chamber will foul much faster.
You are correct in the points that were made. Still, there are some assumptions that are not 100% in every case.
1) not every steel cased ammo has low quality power. Much does but from time to time there are exceptions. I ran across some zinc coated ammo, in a cheap paper box from CTD for 8.50 a box. Turned out to be very high quality in both performance (1250 fps) and burned really clean (Glocks, Ruger). Supply dried up in just a couple of months.
2) the coating on the steel is an important part of the equation. It appears that the newer polymer coatings go a long way to reduce gas from escaping around shell. Preserving the coating is probably the best argument for not reloading these cases. The coating is damaged when shot the first time. Also primer not being boxer.
3) I clean my guns after every range use, so usually only seen an accumulation of about 200 or so rounds at any one cleaning. For me Federal Champion is about the worst ever. WWB is what I consider good and the standard that others are judged against. The TNJ Aluminium (Nylon jacket Herters/Blazer) is very very clean. Tula seems to be getting better but do not shoot enough of it to really know how much better.

We should remember that most of our guns are really designed and made outside the us. Much of the rest of the world considers steel as the norm. Many seem to think of the guns as "American" based on the importer not the maker. I can not count the number of Springfield users that brag about their American made XDm.

For me the bottom line is that for range ammo, I shoot what is available and at a price point that seems good. I will pay a little extra for Brass or Aluminium, but not more than 1 or 2 cents per round. Most of the time I can find sales at local suppliers that sell 9mm at or below 20 cents per round. Try to avoid gunshow reloads, except for a couple of known brands that have been around awhile. There is a couple of ones that are in a 30 min drive that are known to be good (lot numbers and real boxes, etc). Factory reloads are not any lower price than new most of the time.
 
Just ran through the store on my way somewhere else... 2 year old was running off towards the doors... and I grabbed the wrong boxes as I scooted off to catch her.

Steel cased .45 ACP!!! Nooooooo!

(yes, I reload, no issues with shooting it though. ;) )
 
Steel case ammo shoots and some of it is quite accurate, I've shot a lot of the 9mm and 9x18 Mak as well as 7.62x39 and .223. The 145gr JHP 9mm Silver Bear ammo from Barnual in Russia is very accurate in several 9mm's I've tried it in, the only problem is I had case sticking problems with it where the round fails to cycle the action. While a jhp its not a defensive round as you can see in thie Youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEcsdZBIXN4&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL0E9DB069C5CC2C3Dthere's no expansion and a lot of penetration. As the price has gone up on the sttel case ammo I've gon back to reloading more 9mm and for that I want bras cases.

Most of the steel case ammo is made in former and current Communist countries. The quality control isn't as good as the US manufacturers and I have had 2 obviously underloaded rounds in a case of Wolf ammo. They did clear the barrel but its something I've not seen in any US centerfire ammo.
 
For future references: my long winded post wasn't an attempt to dissuade people from buying or using steel cased Ammunition: of any brand. *I* shoot whatever I can get on the cheap. Reloading can save you a lot of greenbacks over time: but even the starter reloading equipment -is- expensive. I've never shot quite enough to really warrant the investment.

As a result I shoot steel and or aluminum cased ammunition all the time with little or no problems at all. I was only highlighting and explaining (in some detail) two of the main problems associated with steel cased ammo. There's a lot of misconceptions on the topic and I wanted to take the opportunity to clear the air.

My Imbel FAL will *eat* anything, by the way. Brown bear, wolf, radway, yugo surplus, tulammo, my FAL just chuckles and goes "nom nom nom."

That's also why I have a FAL, .308's costly to shoot and I wanted a capable rifle that could digest anything I managed to get my grubby paws on. Adjustable gas system FTW.

"fire, ftf, wrack bolt, fire, ftf. Hold on a second. click. fire, fire, fire, fire. yep, there we go." This event - actually occurred one day.
 
Drunkensobriety, that's one of the reasons I bought a Daewoo DR200 back in the 90s.
It's like an AR, but reliable.
 
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