Stepped 9MM cases.

[ray15]

Maybe so, but since it's the cheap ammo that has it, I would guess it has more to do with the cost of production

I'm unsure on that point. I would think more case material adds more to the bottom line than a touch more powder. But that's just guesswork.

 

[Walkalong]

Cheaper to produce the case maybe?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Interesting. Given the proliferation of free 9mm brass in my area, I think I'd most likely just recycle those.

Interesting discussion though, none the less.

 

[ATLDave]

Looks like the step makes the case head stronger.

Yet, in practice, it makes these cases weaker. Case failures with reloaded stepped 9mm are common.

 

[Mizar]

The biggest issue with these is that they are not 9mm Luger, as defined by the SAAMI or CIP specifications.

Neither SAAMI, or CIP deal with case capacity and/or inside case dimensions.

Slamfire has an interesting point - one, that I also share. For one, we still have many blowback systems, which are more sensitive to case thickness and secondly, I don't think that the manufacturers of that cheap ammo do care at all about reloading - they only care (somewhat) if the rounds fire, cycle and don't blow up guns as loaded from the factory.

 

[ray15]

Neither SAAMI, or CIP deal with case capacity and/or inside case dimensions.

Not directly, but reducing the case capacity to this degree may well result in overpressure before meeting SAAMI velocity. I've never seen a fired 9mm stepped case that didn't have a flat primer.

 

[Slamfire]

Yet, in practice, it makes these cases weaker. Case failures with reloaded stepped 9mm are common.

Well, is that a concern for the ammunition manufacturer? Sort of like aluminum cases, military Berdan primed brass, reloading and reloaders were not a consideration. In fact, might be a way to increase sales of new ammunition if you can't reload it!

 

[ATLDave]

I know of quite a few high-volume shooters that quit buying the Freedom Arms stuff when they learned of the stepped brass and the problems it can cause.

 

[Mizar]

I'll say it again - SAAMI and CIP do not deal with case capacity and case dimensions on the inside - they simply don't care. If the round meets their pressure requirements and overall dimensions, then it's good to go. Velocity is of no concern for them, BTW. "If", "maybe" and "may" are words better left for an informal chat between friends and/or reloaders, but not to be stated as facts. Please, let us stick to the known facts.

 

[ray15]

If the round meets their pressure requirements and overall dimensions, then it's good to go. Velocity is of no concern for them, BTW. "If", "maybe" and "may" are words better left for an informal chat between friends and/or reloaders, but not to be stated as facts. Please, let us stick to the known facts.

That's a pretty big if. Look at the primers in the pic posted by the OP. And BTW - you can pick your own words.

 

[Slamfire]

That's a pretty big if. Look at the primers in the pic posted by the OP. And BTW - you can pick your own words.

I met a guy at the range who had a Rem 700 rifle. Every round he fired, the primer cupped around the firing pin and flowed into the firing pin hole. For most of us, that is an indication of excessive pressures. He called Remington and found that Remington had enlarged the firing pin, just so the primer would flow into it and block it up. They wanted to create a better gas seal.

I have seen lots of primer flow, like in the picture, from Glocks and other semi automatic pistols. It is the way those pistols were made, has little or nothing to do with excessive pressures.

 

[ray15]

I have seen lots of primer flow, like in the picture, from Glocks and other semi automatic pistols. It is the way those pistols were made, has little or nothing to do with excessive pressures.

I understand; I have a glock. It's not the flow around the firing pin that concerns me, it's the edges of the primer cups.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I understand; I have a glock. It's not the flow around the firing pin that concerns me, it's the edges of the primer cups.

I thought the same but it could be just soft primers.

 

[D Rock]

Just for comparison, here's a Glock fired Blazer and a Beretta fired PMC.


Like ray15 said, you can see the edges are a little different.

Dave

 

[jmorris]

Cheaper to produce the case maybe?

Or a new engineer that never read about the “notch effect” in metal but wanted to put his stamp on history.

I’d put him right up there with the fellow that came up with SPP 45 ACP.

 

[Average Joe]

I've seen them, I just toss them, not worth messing with, 9mm cases are all over the place.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Or a new engineer that never read about the “notch effect” in metal but wanted to put his stamp on history.

I’d put him right up there with the fellow that came up with SPP 45 ACP.

I know what you mean but I actually wish all 45 ACP were SPP.

 

[higgite]

Cheaper to make, takes less powder for the same pressure, discourages reloading, what more could a commercial ammo maker ask for?

 

[Dudedog]

I don't know it's history (range brass) but I had one separate right at the step. Lucky it was practice not in the middle of a match.
(mid range load ~4.5 WSF 125gr bullet say 1050fps so not hot)
Gun was down until I got a drill bit just big enough to catch the inside of the case but not to big.
(I had the bit at home, otherwise I could have bought a case extractor)
I put all of them in the recycle can, not worth messing with IMO.

 

[DukeConnor]

Trash them. Not worth playing with.

 

[Walkalong]

I tried the magnet on them and they are definitely plated steel.

 

[Dudedog]

Ones I ran into were brass, bad news either flavor IMO.

 

[Toprudder]

I know what you mean but I actually wish all 45 ACP were SPP.

I don't wish they ALL were SPP, but I do prefer them. As long as others prefer LPP brass, there will be plenty of SPP brass for me to use. I've traded LPP for SPP several times.

 

[Mizar]

Because some members here expressed opinions that this cheap 9mm Luger ammo from Pobjeda was over-pressured, therefore dangerous, I present you the official homologation* document from C.I.P. - it's in the link bellow as a PDF file in French language:
http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/de/homologation_public/show/id/2041

*Homologation (Greek homologeo, ὁμολογέω, "to agree") is the granting of approval by an official authority. Now you tell me (in your own words) will C.I.P. grant a Homologation document to a sub-standard manufacturer, producing potentially dangerous ammunition? One more thing - one simply cannot sell non C.I.P. certified ammunition in a C.I.P. member state, which is basically all of the EU.

From the official C.I.P. web-page:
"In compliance with the 1969 Convention, its Rules and Regulations, and C.I.P. Decisions, every small arm together with all highly stressed component parts must undergo lawful testing in the Proof House of the C.I.P. Member State in which the manufacturer is located or, for imported weapons, in the Proof House of the Member State into which they have been imported for the first time. The same applies to commercial ammunition."

So, despite the fact that Bosnia and Herzegovina (where the Pobjeda Technologies plant is located) is not a C.I.P. member state, they must proof their ammunition in accordance to the C.I.P. standards in order to sell that ammo in EU.

Hope this helps,
Mizar

 

[Walkalong]

Because some members here expressed opinions that this cheap 9mm Luger ammo from Pobjeda was over-pressured, therefore dangerous

The way I read their posts was it could be if the handloader wasn't careful due to the reduced case capacity, not that it came that way.