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Stg44 vs AK47 Design

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Ohio Gun Guy, Dec 10, 2008.

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  1. Ohio Gun Guy

    Ohio Gun Guy Member

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    I saw in person a stg44 (Sturmgewehr) at a gun show earlier this year. It was not for sale, and I'm sure I didnt have enough if it was. I have always thought that it looks strikingly like it is Version 1 of the AK47. Of course the Russians do not admit this, but from looking at it, I do not think there is any way that Mikhail Kalashnikov did not have one of these in the shop while "inventing" the AK47. Not that the AK isn't improved & Significantly different, but really, look at the attached pictures. Additionally, the Russians blatently copied other designs during WW2 (Our B29, Google RUSSIAN B-29 CLONE- THE TU-4 STORY)

    Picture I grabbed off of a previous post here on THR is the inside hammer. Look at the hammer & Spring arrangement. It's the same! Is this common knowledge, or am I on to something here? :scrutiny:
     

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  2. JoeSlomo

    JoeSlomo Member

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    Nah, you are on to something.

    However, it is NOT uncommon for countries, and companies alike, to "borrow" ideas from other countries. There are many weapons that are modeled after, or share traits with, foreign designs.
     
  3. bthest86

    bthest86 Member

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    They are similar in concept and profile but they are different designs. The AK-design is more related to the M1 Garand than the Stg44.
     
  4. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    You'd have to be a fool to deny that the AK was influenced by the STG44, and not just in concept. I do think it is very likely there were samples of the STG44 in the hands of Kalashnikov.

    However, that is not to lessen Kalashnikov's ingenuity and venerable design.
     
  5. Funderb

    Funderb Member

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    I always thought the similarities were too obvious to ignore.
    but you know how the russians are.
    They wont even admit that they are of viking descent.
     
  6. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    ...except the STG-44 is a striker fired design and the AK uses a hammer. The STG-44 is more similar to the VZ-58 rifle that the Czech's use. I think Kalashnikov was influenced by the profile of the rifle and the durability of the magazines, but decided to produce a simpler design.
     
  7. PirateRadio

    PirateRadio Member

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    I'd love to own a STG-44 someday. It just seems like a really cool rifle.
     
  8. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    Also, the AK uses a rotating bolt and the Stg44 a tilting bolt. They do look similar, though.

    As mentioned above, the AK borrows from a bunch of different designs, from the Stg, the Garand, and even from the Remington Model 8 (safety lever).
     
  9. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    Also, the Soviet's first jet engines were unlicensed, reverse-engineered copies of Rolls Royce and BMW engines.
     
  10. Acheron

    Acheron Member

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    It is a generally accepted fact that Kalashnikov patterned the layout of the AK47 after the StG44, but the internals are very different.

    The Vz. 58, however, was directly based off of the Stg44 despite the similarities in appearance between it (the Vz. 58) and the AK.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2008
  11. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    Sort of. Unlike the Stg44, the Vz58 uses a separate, short stroke piston, a tilting locking piece (rather than just a tilting bolt) and a milled receiver .
     
  12. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    [​IMG]

    The StG44 has a similar appearance, but the similarities pretty much end there as you can see from the included images.

    The locking systems between the AK and the StG44 are completely two different designs.

    They do use a similar gas system (long-stroke), but neither the AK or the StG44 pioneered this method of operation.

    The StG44 has a modular trigger pack design whereas the AK does not.

    They both use shortened versions of full power cartridges. If anything, this is something Kalashnikov copied pretty much directly.

    The original AK47 had a machined receiver (although early prototypes were stamped, the Russians abandon the stamped receiver until later models of the AK were developed). The StG44 is completely stamped.

    They both use pistol grip stocks... but again, this wasn't a completely new concept.

    They both are select fire. The fire control parts are completely different on the two rifles.

    So, I would not say the AK is a copy of the StG44. It is a copy of the concept (assault rifle) but the implementations are completely different.

    The StG44 certainly inspired Kalashnikov's design, but he didn't copy the rifle.

    P.S. the StG44 is hammer fired, it doesn't have a striker. You can see the hammer in the second picture the OP posted. It has a semi-conventional firing pin (wedge shaped).
     
  13. screechjet1

    screechjet1 Member

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    [​IMG]

    That picture is less than a year old.

    The sad part is that rifle, properly registered, would fetch enough to fund the Ogaden Separatists for a month.
     
  14. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    Can someone identify the others in that picture? I see a Hakim, and an AR or M16 all the way in the back. But what is that weird thing with the shrouded barrel right behind the Stg44?
     
  15. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Looks like a Beretta 38A.

    Hey, the Democrats like foreign aid. Do you think the BO administration would reopen MG registration to support their 3rd world buds? Probably not.
     
  16. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    How do these third world jokers keep all their calibers straight? They're using a bunch of totally obscure weapons - where do they even get the ammo? Do they make it themselves?
     
  17. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Nobody said they were identical in operation... or even in any other way....
     
  18. sturmgewehr667

    sturmgewehr667 member

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    yes

    i LOVE stg44's as you can tell by my handle. it is my life long dream to own one, even if i have to go to a third world warzone to get one:)
     
  19. -v-

    -v- Member

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    I'd also point out that some of the similarities might also be examples of simple convergent design. The AVS-36, and the SVT series of self-loading rifles also featured the gas-piston mounted above the barrel a-la StG-44/AK-47, thus with the piston being above the barrel, it would necessitate that the front sights be raised up so that the shooter could aim through them. Also the M43 cartridge has a notable taper to it to aid in feeding, thus the necessity of "banana-mags" due to the natural curvature of these rounds when stacked in a magazine.
     
  20. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    i often wonder why where tilting bolts used instead of rotating bolts. Rotating bolts existed before the invention of the stg44, sks, fal, but they went with tilting bolts instead.
     
  21. Ian

    Ian Member

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    I bet it's simpler to make a trunnion for a tilting bolt than a rotating one.
     
  22. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Are there any two weapons in that picture that use the same ammo?
     
  23. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    Those guys don't realize it but they're running a frickin' rifle museum over there. If they could just get their act together and auction off that collection of theirs, they could probably purchase their own island and be as separate from Ethiopia as they damn well please.
     
  24. Tyris

    Tyris member

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    Auction it off to whom exactly?

    They're worth their functional value over there, wanna bust some caps, use whatever comes to hand with a handful of rounds.

    They cant be imported to the US as we're whipped by our lame laws, and europeans are too limp wristed to care.

    -T
     
  25. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    It is a dream of mine, for an American company to create an STG44 clone in 7.62x39 that takes AK mags and sell them for under a grand. :)
     
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