STI Spartan or EAA Witness Elite Match instead of CZ?

[Martowski]

I have a CZ-75b and am considering getting rid of it in favor of an STI Spartan 9mm or an EAA Witness Elite Match. Heavily leaning toward the Spartan as I want a nice range gun, with crisp SA trigger, good sights, and slim grip as top priority. The CZ fills none of these needs (sights are horrible, but trigger is creepy and the pull weight isn't anything to write home about).

So, opinions on either the STI or the Elite Match? STI's customer service is also a big plus, whereas EAA's is a negative in my mind. Essentially I'm trying to figure out if the Witness has any advantages at all for what I want (capacity is not a factor here).

 

[Bozwell]

Were it me, I'd use the money you will lose in a trade and have some custom work done to your CZ 75B. If you're going to get a 1911, get one in .45acp, not 9mm (imo). The Witness Elite Match is a good gun - until you have a problem with it. Then you have to deal with EAA customer service and best of luck with that.

Send your 75B to the CZ custom shop and have them do an action job, replace the sights, install the competition hammer and respring the gun. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results.

 

[intercooler]

I don't think much difference in those two. Never have enough guns though LOL

 

[Martowski]

I've thought about that but noticed the hammer alone is $170 to install. So once I'm down shipping there and back that's $200, and that doesn't count $210 for an LPA rear adjustable or $50 to respring. The CZ itself only ran me $400 total.

But, I may keep it and just save up for the STI as I typically regret getting rid of firearms after the fact.

 

[dcarch]

I would definitely go with the customization route.

 

[railroader]

I've thought about that but noticed the hammer alone is $170 to install. So once I'm down shipping there and back that's $200, and that doesn't count $210 for an LPA rear adjustable or $50 to respring. The CZ itself only ran me $400 total.

But, I may keep it and just save up for the STI as I typically regret getting rid of firearms after the fact.

If you take your hammer and sear out you can send it to cajun gun works . David there will recut your hammer and make your sear adjustable so when it goes back together you will have a very nice trigger pull. It runs $68 plus less than $5 shipping. http://www.cajungunworks.com/1.html

 

[Thompsoncustom]

yea if your looking for a great gun smith and not breaking the bank I'd say look over CGW website and see what you want done it to or just give David a call. The stock CZ triggers are Ok at best but they can be turned into something amazing I run some parts the CGW makes and they are top notch I would put my SA up there with a 1911.

Can't say anything about the STI or the EAA witness but I have thought about getting the standard Witness a few times now just because you can change to 10mm and I think it would be great to have the CZ platform in 10mm also there kadet kits are under half the price of the CZ kadet kit.

 

[Martowski]

Hmmmm... the cajun gunworks option is interesting.

 

[ckone]

Having owned all the guns you've mentioned (well, an STI Trojan 9mm anyways, which is a step up from a Spartan) I'd choose the CZ, but not just any CZ, you MUST get the CZCustoms competition hammer (or CGW drop-in milled Shadow hammer) and a 15 or 13lb hammer-spring to unlock it's true potential.

For the money, the Witness Match is incredible and hard to top (especially now that there are better 9mm mags being made by Mec-Gar that actually work most of the time without nose-diving), but, it's like a larger-framed CZ and isn't exactly what I'd describe as slim... and it's getting hard to find the older examples that had the "super-sight" which was fairly ok, the other more common adjustable Novak-style rear-sight option is kind of lousy but still useable, up front, if you don't like the front that Henning Walgren makes you're SOL 'cause that's it.

As for the CZ, anyone semi-inclined can install a CZC comp hammer themselves and then it's really only like $70, really no need to overpay to have CZC do it, and there are quality sight options from CZC and Dawson Precision out there, and finally, with some of the grips out there they can be made to be actually too-thin, making a 1911 wearing thin grips seem fat and thick... Slim is not a problem.

STI's are great guns, but a 9mm 1911 is a high-maintenance relationship at best, just a headache usually, boringly reliable never.

Truthfully, sounds like you might just want to save up a little, maybe flip the CZ you already have, and spring for a CZ Shadow T, worth every penny IMO.

 

[Martowski]

Thanks ckone... great insights. The idea of some basic parts to improve my CZ's trigger pull, reach, and sight pic is intriguing.

I know the CGW hammers are drop in; is that the same with the CZ custom hammer?

 

[Walkalong]

As for the CZ, anyone semi-inclined can install a CZC comp hammer themselves

I would say very inclined.

I know the CGW hammers are drop in; is that the same with the CZ custom hammer?

You have to re-cut the sear, which is where you can get in trouble. Not to mention the small parts you have to get back together. If you are handy mechanically, and used to disassembling/reassembling small parts in things, you can do it.

Go slow with the sear, very slow.

I did it to my CZ 97, and the trigger is absolutely superb now.

I had a Witness Elite Match in .40, and the trigger was very nice. I just traded it off because it was a .40. If it was a 9MM, I would still have it. I did buy a CZ 75 in 9MM, and the trigger needs a little work. I will most likely install the competition hammer in it.

 

[Martowski]

No way I'm cutting a sear. If I do anything to my CZ on my own I'll be looking for drop in parts.

 

[imsobored]

From what ive read EAAs customer service is getting better. I have the regular 9mm witness and i love it. The elite would be awesome

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk

 

[greyling22]

link to a cz DIY trigger job. Don't know that I'd mess with sears myself though http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?topic=12683.15

I have the elite match 9mm. chose it over the STI. The sti grip just wasn't as comfortable as the witness. Now, the bad on the witness:
*the newer ones with the rail do not come with the slick bomar supersight any more, and the new sights are not as good.
*if you find an older one with the good sights, it will have the horrible old style mags that nosedive. (EA will replace them with the new mags for free though if you ship them your old ones)
*the rubber grips that come on the witness are thick, and that coupled with the larger frame of the elite guns makes the grip much larger than a 1911. Henning is the only place to get nice thin grips, and they're expensive.

EA customer service is not as bad as it was. It has moved up from horrible to mediocre. HEnning also has a good video on detail stripping the CZ style guns. I could not have done it without the video. There are some small parts in there that are tricky.

but both guns are nice. you're going to win either way.

 

[dcarch]

Cajun Gun Works, IMHO, is one of the best places out there.

 

[ckone]

I know the CGW hammers are drop in; is that the same with the CZ custom hammer?

The CZC hammer requires fitting the sear's safety-leg to the safety's "pad", it's not really cutting the sear as in how it interacts with the hammer as it sounds like you're thinking... It's easier to just file down the safety's pad than to work on the sear's safety-leg, but the sears are only $9 to replace back to stock when a safety is $35, that said, once the comp hammer is installed you'll never want to ever put a stock hammer back again and you'll have actually increased the gun's value by a $100 or so. I always fit the safety's pad, and that's what CZC recommends too as it's so much less of a hassle.

The CGW kits come with a sear that has an adjustable set-screw to fit the safety-leg, so that might be more appealing if you're weary.

Just adding one of those hammers is IMO the best way to go (and probably cheapest and least trouble option too), the trigger will rival or beat the best 1911 in SA when you're done and DA will be on par with a top-shelf revolver, you'll be amazed, and smiling ear to ear.

 

[railroader]

The CZC hammer requires fitting the sear's safety-leg to the safety's "pad", it's not really cutting the sear as in how it interacts with the hammer as it sounds like you're thinking... It's easier to just file down the safety's pad than to work on the sear's safety-leg, but the sears are only $9 to replace back to stock when a safety is $35, that said, once the comp hammer is installed you'll never want to ever put a stock hammer back again and you'll have actually increased the gun's value by a $100 or so. I always fit the safety's pad, and that's what CZC recommends too as it's so much less of a hassle.

The CGW kits come with a sear that has an adjustable set-screw to fit the safety-leg, so that might be more appealing if you're weary.

Just adding one of those hammers is IMO the best way to go (and probably cheapest and least trouble option too), the trigger will rival or beat the best 1911 in SA when you're done and DA will be on par with a top-shelf revolver, you'll be amazed, and smiling ear to ear.

You can also use the CGW adjustable sear with the cz custom comp hammer. That's what I have in my 75sa and it works great.

 

[foxmoor]

I have a CZ 75B, had a EAA Witness Match in 9mm, and now own an STI Trojan in 9mm (upgrade from Spartan, but a friend has one). While I liked the EAA Match, I found the grip too wide and the gun a bit nose heavy. I really like the STI Trojan 1911 in 9mm, though, and mine has been totally reliable and a joy to shoot. I have had trigger jobs on two of my CZs and now their trigger pulls are similar to the STI. So, I'd keep the CZ and have some trigger work done and eventually go for an STI, if you can. If you can only have one and it's primarily a range/HD gun, I'd go STI. Just my $0.02................

Kent in MI

 

[Stringfellow]

Just adding one of those hammers is IMO the best way to go (and probably cheapest and least trouble option too), the trigger will rival or beat the best 1911 in SA when you're done and DA will be on par with a top-shelf revolver, you'll be amazed, and smiling ear to ear.

+1000!

I just got back my '75 with a Competition Hammer installed. The trigger is awesome. It is like crack cocaine or something--I keep dry firing it and can't put it down!

 

[Bozwell]

I've installed various CGW kits in several of my CZ's. Never once have I had to alter or cut the sear. They are for all intents and purposes drop in parts. The kit #3 comes with an adjustable sear which has a screw that you adjust and then fix in place with some loctite once it's adjusted. The "hard" part about installing one of David's kits is fully disassembling the gun, which is trickier with a decocker model than a manual safety model. You can, however, use a slave pin to avoid full disassembling the sear assembly, which will save you the trouble of reassembling the sear cage.

 

[Walkalong]

I always fit the safety's pad, and that's what CZC recommends too as it's so much less of a hassle.

I reckin' that is what I will do when I install the Comp hammer in my 75, because folks are right, the end result is really, really, good. Superb, actually.

 

[railroader]

I reckin' that is what I will do when I install the Comp hammer in my 75, because folks are right, the end result is really, really, good. Superb, actually.

That's what is great about the CGW sear. There is no fitting involved. You adjust the set screw and you are done.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Sears are cheap I think I have gone through oh 4 or 5 sear on my 75b because I'm always trying to improve something. Not that big of deal to fit the safety lag to the sear as long as you go slow you'll be fine. Now messing with the angle on the sear is what gets ya into trouble and with the Comp hammer you should not change the angle at all because you will most likely get hammer follow and lose your SA till you replace the sear but there are improvement that can be made to the sear like if your DA pull has gritty felling a lot of that can be caused from the bottom side of the sear where it moves across the hammer tho the hammer itself plays a roll in that to. I would say it's pretty safe to buff up the bottom side as long as you stay away from the engagement angle you really don't have anything to worry about, But if your not conformable doing it then don't and just tell david what you want done I'm sure he can turn that thing into a purring machine.

I think you would change your mind about this gun if you could handle a finely tuned CZ the difference is night and day. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

 

[Walkalong]

I am familiar with it. CGW is run by a THR member.

 

[JDGray]

Convert yours to SA only

The CZ Competition hammer is a nicer looking hammer, but removing the positive angle and cutting the hooks on the factory hammer is just as good. Removing the FP block, spring, and lever will quicken the reset, and installing the SA flat trigger will finish off the deal.
Sights are a different problem, but painting the dots white helps a bunch. I'd install the CZ front FO sight, and use the factory rear. My CZ75B SA has a trigger equall to my SA Milspec, both very good!

I would go the CGW route, if your unsure of your gunsmithing skills.