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Still Yet Another "I Argued With An Anti" Thread

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by jakemccoy, Mar 7, 2009.

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  1. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    Like many of you, I don't argue with anti's anymore. However, I can't shake one particular argument out of my mind. I was arguing with my anti-gun brother-in-law general surgeon. If you're imagining the typical type, you're probably right.

    I wasn't saying much in the debate about guns. (There were 2 anti's against me). He didn't even know that I had any guns and that I was carrying at that moment. I didn't want to cause a blood vessel to explode in his brain.

    Eventually, I had enough. So, I asked him this:

    "Will you concede the fact that criminals will always have a supply to guns, someway, somehow?..."

    You probably can guess where I was going. Anyway, he danced around that point and wouldn't concede it. I remember that being the defining moment when I decided I wouldn't debate with an anti-gun person.

    My bottom line question is the following: was it accurate for me to say the bold part above?

    I'm just making sure.
     
  2. Gamera

    Gamera Member

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    Barring some sort of miracle in which all guns are zapped out of existence, I'd say that's a fair statement. But even if guns were zapped out of existence, criminals would still find means to hurt other people. Bats, knives, crowbars, hammers, lumber, bricks, bare hands, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  3. Shung

    Shung Member

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    Sure.. You are the one abiding the laws... not the criminals.. and making guns disapear from the face of the earth is NEVER going to happend..
     
  4. Gamera

    Gamera Member

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    I was wondering if anyone would catch that :p
     
  5. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    Japan has the most stringent gun control in the world. It has since the seventeenth century. Samurai, Yakuza, whoever's in charge want to make sure they don't have any competition. Gun control in Britain began under the dictator Oliver Cromwell. It's all about monopoly.
     
  6. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    "Will you concede the fact that criminals will always have a supply to weapons, someway, somehow?..."

    Try this next time.

    Then try to remind him that good men with weapons are the ones who defend him against the selfish ones who would take away his property or life.

    And since he's determined that he won't do anything to protect himself, why is he forcing others to do his dirty work?

    Folks can be led to rethinking their position if it's done tactfully.
     
  7. azhunter122

    azhunter122 Member

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    Yes it was justified, it is a valid point.
     
  8. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    I don't "argue" with antis. I leave them crushed and broken, quivering in a death rattle like a Japanese officer who attacked a Marine Sherman with a saber. I leave track marks on their broken backs.

    Not only was what you said "accurate", I've used it repeatedly. When I can show just how easy it is to make a serviceable submachinegun, and how cheap they are to build ($7.00 for a Sten in WWII) they can only change the subject, or lie. When they lie, their behind is mine.
     
  9. Eyesac

    Eyesac Member

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    I think if someone has a problem with the existance of guns, they're a little past where I'd like to argue with them. Dancing around the fact that bad people can get guns is just being dishonest, not worth my time.
     
  10. metallic

    metallic Member

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    I've never succeeded in converting an anti. They act on emotion, not logic or reason.
     
  11. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    It's not enough to know they're dishonest. You need to SHOW it to the undecided. It takes very little effort to prove they're liars. In fact, they'll do all of the work for you. I've been seeing it for 30 years.

    Google the names "Michael A Bellesiles" and "Clayton Cramer". Bellesiles is a pathological liar and we all owe a debt of gratitude to Clayton for very publicly proving it. Bellesiles' exposure as a liar and an academic fraud was a crushing defeat for the anti-gun movement. To millions of people it was a demonstration that the anti-gun movement has the honesty and the intellect of the Holocaust denial movement.
     
  12. deadhawg

    deadhawg Member

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    One response I have used in a similar situation goes something like:

    Many drugs are against the law to use or posess.

    The federal government has an organization called the DEA, the Drug Enforcement Agency. They have a multi million dollar budget, thousands of uniformed agents, undercover agents, informants, helicopters, wiretaps, etc. all dedicated to stopping the use of illegal drugs

    Every state has it's own version of the DEA.
    Every city and town of more than a few thousand people has a narcotics division as part of it's police department.

    Our jails and prisons are full of drug users and dealers.

    Yet those who are willing to break the law, and there are plenty that are, can still buy illegal drugs pretty much anywhere they go, big city or small town, streetcorner or penthouse.

    Do you really think that passing more anti gun laws will keep guns out of the hands of those who are willing to break the law to get them?
     
  13. Spyvie

    Spyvie Member

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    I like to explain that a machinist can make a working firearm from scratch in his garage. Black powder can be easily made from naturally obtainable supplies, Ect…

    There is no way all firearms can be removed from our society. No possible way.
     
  14. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    And to include inside the prisons where they sit, even though we control every aspect of thier lives, they still manage to smuggle it in.

    And RB98SS, especially if dunked in habanero sauce.
     
  15. lukepriebe

    lukepriebe Member

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    Talked to someone in the bank today who had been mugged at an ATM. Said she didn't believe people should be able to have guns but really wished she would have had one then. I just shook my head.
     
  16. Gamera

    Gamera Member

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    Spyvie, you only quoted part of what I said.

     
  17. Martyk

    Martyk Member

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    Even if guns were zapped out of existence, criminals will still use other weapons. And the competition for better survival would begin again, and better weapons would get developed, and eventually guns would be reinvented. It's human nature to compete ...

    Try downloading and reading this before your next Anti debate. There is a lot of factual and statistical information

    www.gunfacts.info
     
  18. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    To people who claim that eliminating guns will eliminate violence, I always reply, "So what you're saying is that you want a world ruled by large, strong men wielding swords and axes? We tried that. It was called the 'dark ages'."

    To people who say it's "harder" to kill someone with a club or a knife, I reply, "Have you asked British playwrite Joe Orton about that? Do you know how to conduct a seance?" (His boyfriend beat him to death with a claw hammer.) or "So then you're saying my godsister isn't really dead? How come she doesn't return phone calls?" (She was stabbed to death by her boyfriend.)

    Seriously debate enough antis and these things will be indelibly committed to memory and will trip effortlessly off of your tongue. I'm sure it's one reason why the media works so hard to use the uninformed and the inarticulate as "spokesmen" for the pro-gun movement. When they slip up and have a REAL debate between somebody who knows not just the facts, but the other side's arguments, and a witless dolt like Toby Hoover or Father Phleger, there's always blood and body parts strewn about, invariably those of the anti-gunner.
     
  19. Spyvie

    Spyvie Member

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    Sorry Gamera, I knew what you meant, and I was trying to reinforce your point.
     
  20. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    I'll add that criminals in prisons have been known to make crude guns.

    The following are examples that mass media would rather not broadcast...

    http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/07/gallery-of-home.html

    http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=20451 (scan for "home-made gun")

    http://atriclesofinterest.wordpress...aff-take-refuge-as-inmates-fire-homemade-gun/
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  21. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    jakemccoy: "It's actually been done before and is still a problem with knowledgeable prisoners, and I'm not talking about smuggling in firearms."

    Example?
     
  22. Gamera

    Gamera Member

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    Spyvie - gotcha, thanks!

    Deanimator hit the nail on the head. I was reading somewhere (an anti-gun facebook group I think) that there were "better ways" to fight against an attacker, "like a knife or your bare hands or whatever". So I guess that means that the antis would rather:

    a. Use a knife. Yeah, stab them repeatedly in the stomach until their entrails start hanging out. Make sure they don't grab the knife and use it against you!

    b. Use some sort of bludgeon. Break the bones in their hands and arms, knock their jaw off, or put a crack in their skull. Make sure they don't get the bludgeon from you!

    c. Fight with your hands. Gouge their eyes out, bite chunks of their flesh off, knock teeth out of their head. Make sure they don't do the same to you!

    It seems to me that guns are the most civilized way to defend yourself!
     
  23. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    Duke, see post I edited.
     
  24. Bill of Ojai

    Bill of Ojai Member

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    Smuggling is big business. Anti's don't consider that every other evolved nation in the world is manufacturing forearms at a prodigious rate. China, Korea, Switzerland, Germany, South Africa, France, Austria, Russia, and more.

    They also fail to consider how many "antiques" are around in the U.S. fully capable of deadly firepower.
     
  25. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Not just crude ones. Guns & Ammo once did a story on prison contraband guns, and one of them was a fully functional submachinegun, the equivalent of some of the guns manufactured for the German Volkssturm at the end of the war. At that point, the antis either change the subject, start pulling "facts" out of their colons, or scream a racial epithet and run away.

    I like to talk about the final generation MAC 11s where the only forging was the barrel. Even the bolt was a cheap stamping, filled with molten lead during assembly for inertia mass. The firing pin was just a stamped projection on the bolt face.

    I tell these cretins, "Why don't you try banning crack cocaine first, and see how that works out."
     
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