Quantcast

Stolen Valor Cases

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by green5594, Apr 8, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Texas A&M, "covert ops"....

    My ex told me about a high ranking official at Texas A&M University(TAMU) who was run out on a rail over his bogus claims of being a SEAL officer while on active duty. He was up for a assistant provost slot when his true service record was exposed. :eek:
    He did the "Curley Shuffle" saying at first that he was attached to the SEAL Team 2 but several sources pointed out how he wore the SEAL insignia(also called the Budweiser). The TAMU official never went thru BUD/S or had any documented SF/SpecWar records. He either quit or got kicked to the curb by the university's board of regents. My ex said it was a big scandal in College Station Texas. ;)

    As for the ? about the article, I would admit that some spec ops/covert actions are classified. Some CIA officers & service members "attached" to special units get Intelligence Stars or awards that are top secret/redacted.
    The recent Hollywood hit/award winner: Argo is a good example.
    Some special ops veterans also have a hard time verifying service records/missions when they request VA treatment. :mad:
    A young guy I worked with in 2013 told me how his father did a long stint in the NSA/ASA(Army Security Agency). VA staff & doctors told him to leave & that they had to aid real veterans. :eek:
    The guy said he & his brother reached out to Sen Al Franken who got the Sec of Veterans Affairs & the Dir of the NSA at the time to cut the red tape/classified files and process the VA medical benefits.

    RS
     
  2. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    21,216
    Location:
    AL, NC
    Oh, I'm not saying that nothing is classified. Otherwise they wouldn't have made me (kicking and screaming) get a security clearance too :D.

    If something is classified, some joe on the street isn't likely to ask about it, and even if he did, someone who really had something to do with whatever it was is NOT going to just snap, "THAT'S CLASSIFIED!" in reply. :D

    That's what cover stories are for :D.
     
  3. Leanwolf

    Leanwolf Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,115
    Location:
    Idaho
    Poseurs are everywhere.

    About 2½ years ago, I ran into a young man who claimed he had been a Navy SEAL, but blew out a knee on a mission and had to leave the Teams and was discharged on a Medical Discharge. He was in excellent condition and knew plenty of things about SEAL training, so at first I didn't question his claim.

    Over a period of a couple months, several things he told me just did not quite add up. One day I asked him his class number and he promptly told me.

    I e-mailed a friend of mine who was a longtime SEAL, stationed at that time at the SEAL base in Little Creek. I told him the young man's name and class number. He said he'd check the database and get back to me. A couple of days later, he emailed me and wrote, "The young man has not been forthcoming with you. He was in BUD/S class xxx, but he was DFP, "Dropped For Performance." He also told me that if I found out the young man was trying to raise any money or run any scams using his "SEAL" claim, to let him know. He said, "We have some people who'll come talk to him."

    Oddly enough, the young man disappeared and to this day I have no idea where he is... but it would not surprise me if he is still making the same claim.

    L.W.
     
  4. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,964
    SOCOM is a small community. Chances are if you know someone who was actually part of SOCOM, they can confirm or deny a poser. Similar to what Leanwolf did. I have several friends, mentors, and classmates who have gone through the elite schools in nearly every branch. Whenever I run across a poser or a military record that doesn't quite pass the "smell test" I have a few resources.

    I did my own little field test of a gentleman who claimed he was a LT comm specialist for a Green Beret team. Every part of his story did not make sense, but I did not ask him for a DD214 or any documentation. I asked him to show me a scar that every person who deploys overseas should have, and those here who have know what it is. The "LT" had no idea. Proof right there.
     
  5. Nom de Forum

    Nom de Forum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,756
    Location:
    Arizona
    Not always true when the notice and actual deployment occur within hours, not days or weeks, at least during the 1980s. I don't have that scar from deployment. Similarly they didn't give me all my shots when I PCSed to Germany. Something I found out when I got there. Perhaps due to my immediate prior duty station at an USAF base instead of an USA post. The Wingnuts probably were not as concerned about a Grunt as for their own Zoomies.:rolleyes:
     
  6. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Messages:
    14,885
    Location:
    Lewisberry, PA
    I've deployed overseas. No scar.


    You're about 30 years or so behind the times on some of the shot records.
     
  7. Tirod

    Tirod Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,839
    Location:
    SW MO
    Military service is the individuals concern to inform others about. From another point of view, not saying a thing has it's benefits.

    Some I know go so far as to exclude references to it on their resume where possible, as not every employer wants or needs to know. Bias is still a major employment issue for many who's HR personnel carefully screen applicants to keep the workforce military free.

    While in some circles having experience and training in the use of lethal force is required, the other 19,900,000+ prior service aren't getting hired for it. They are the exception, the 1 in 100, and the boss may not be comfortable with it whatsoever. That's real life out in the streets.

    Wearing the badges, caps, patches, t-shirts, or emblems just helps too many screen out who they won't support and will hinder. It didn't take me two months after coming back from deployment to understand the odd looks I got when they asked where I was and what I did. It quickly became a grey man game with need to know. And I didn't serve half of it with a firearm in my hands at all.

    Goes to - if someone needs to be constantly up front about their service in a publicly displayed manner, whether visual or verbal, I have to think there is an issue with self image and other underlying causes. I just smile and move on, they just got pidgeon holed with all the other bikers, game shirt wearers, etc.

    No, you aren't (name your favorite player here) because you wear the jersey, and it really has nothing to do with how we are interacting anyway. I don't need to know. Stop being a pretender. There are far too many already.

    There is an ugly side to being a vet and it's not always discussed. In a lot of cases, it's valor stolen from them by those who despise it. They far outnumber the showboats who claim they did serve and they cause far more damage.

    There is more valor stolen from vets by that than a few posers.
     
  8. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,961
    Location:
    Oregon
    I didn't realize employers were avoiding hiring former military, I do know they often (illegally) want to avoid hiring NG and Reserves.

    There is a one of a kind DOD funded study here in OR where they look at vet employees and their supervisors. They give the sups training on military culture and how vets think etc. and document the results to see if there are improvements. I'm gonna try and see if I qualify for it, I think it is a very interesting subject. My employer certainly hasn't discriminated against me in any way and I even deployed for a full tour while there. OTOH, they don't really know what I do and what level I'm operating at (management/leadership wise) in the military.
     
  9. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Common traits....

    It's sometimes not hard to spot a SEAL faker or some other spec ops poser but sometimes they'll be coy or clever. :rolleyes:
    A common way to expose a fake SEAL is to ask what Team or unit they were assigned to. Even #s; 2, 6, 8, etc are considered "East Coast"(eastern US). Odd #s; 1, 3, 7, 9 etc are "West Coast"(western US).
    In the non fiction book; Rogue Warrior, author & ex SEAL officer Richard "Dick" Marcinko wrote that he chose SEAL Team 06 for the CT specwar unit to confuse the Soviet Union(KGB, GRU). He wanted to make the Soviets & the Warsaw Pact nations think the US Navy had lots more SEALs & "Special Boat Units"(now called SWCC) than they really had. ;)

    Rusty
     
  10. Ramone

    Ramone Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    888
    Location:
    Tidewater VA
    Living here in Norfolk, Out of the 10,000 BUDS graduates (ever) I've met about 25,000...
     
  11. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Ha!

    That's funny. :D
    US Army general H Norman Schwartzkof(check spelling) the CiC of all US & coalition forces in Desert Shield/Desert Storm(1990-1992) is rumored to have a strong dislike of US spec ops units.
    He wanted to reduce the op-tempo(# of missions) to the bare minimums in SW Asia. Delta(SFOD-1) had a small role & the US Navy later stated the total # of US Navy SEALs & special boat crews were only 300 men. That's it.
    US Army Rangers can be another story. Many officers, ROTC cadets & enlisted combat arms soldiers go thru Ranger School at Fort Benning GA.

    When I was on active duty at Fort Lee VA in the early 1990s, there was a command Sgt Major(E-9) who was a SE Asia era Medal of Honor recipient on the post. A US Army Major General(two star) that ran the Public Affairs Command earned a MoH for his combat missions as a medevac helicopter pilot.
    I think the general was the last officer still on active duty with a MoH from the Vietnam service era.

    Rusty
    PS; when I was in the US Army the Command Sgt Major in charge of the Special Forces School(Fort Bragg NC) was named Rambo! No lie. :D
     
  12. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    21,216
    Location:
    AL, NC
    Seems http://www.socnet.com/index.php does poser checks ... don't recall seeing the forum before I retired, but they were in business for a couple of years before I left Bragg.

    And yes, CSM Rambo was at JFK while I was there.

    All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm a neverwuz. Because if I was a has been, all these reminders would be REALLY depressing. :D
     
  13. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,964
    He SHOULD of had one because of the time frame of his supposed deployment. Didn't mean to imply every vet didn't.
     
  14. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    7,607
    Location:
    Back on Puget Sound
    Scar? What scar is this? I made more'n a few overseas deployments between '81 and '05 ... I have no scars from any vaccinations. Got a scar from some bad thorns, a scar from a bar fight (slipped on a wet floor) ...

    You know how you recognize real SEALs, right? They're the worst-dressed guys in the bar ... unshaven, baggy shorts, flip-flops, raggy t-shirts and unshaven. If a guy is clean-shaven, sporting an expensive wristwatch, wearing a polo shirt, khaki pants and Topsiders ... he's a poser.

    As far as the OP goes -- I have a substantial amount of concern regarding the veracity of the backgrounds of the plethora of firearms trainers out there. I've encounter more than a few whom I know could not have been where they said they've been nor done what they say they've done.

    The field of firearms training (and gunshops as well, to be sure) seems to attract an awful lot of big egos and guys who exaggerate their credentials. There is one local school here I won't recommend to anyone, and a few gunshops I can't bear to spend any time in ...
     
  15. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Combat veterans; quiet professionals.....

    I agree with the last post.
    Even as a real veteran, you aren't always going to have a lot of medals or lists of special schools. When I was in the armed forces, there were a lot of draw-downs & budget cuts. I seriously considered ending my enlistment a year early under a special DA program.
    Many service members give consideration to combat veterans or those deployed to combat zones because they have applied what they learned in their advanced training or have medals/recognition.
    These service members are mostly "quiet professionals" & don't need to brag-boast about their records or awards.
     
  16. Nom de Forum

    Nom de Forum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,756
    Location:
    Arizona
    This phenomenon of people thanking you for your service has another aspect. I have encountered some people who upon learning of your military service in a superficial encounter that will thank you but really are not. The problem is that these are people who impress me as someone who would never consider serving in the military as a good decision. In fact they are just making a statement that makes them feel better about themselves or worse is really a not so subtle patronizing expression of contempt for anyone stupid enough to serve. These people rarely want to know anything or care about your service, they just want to make a self-aggrandizing statement. Anyone else noticed this?
     
  17. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Western PA
    ^^^ I agree. Supporting the military has almost become a fashion statement in our country. It seems like people are always saying "Look at me! Look at me! I support the troops!" But what does that actually mean? To many of them, not much. And it's getting a little annoying.
     
  18. tarosean

    tarosean Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    7,191
    Location:
    TX
    Every single thing. compulsive liars rarely tell the truth, even for the simple mundane things... (Kinda sorta related by marriage to one, wife's cousin):banghead::cuss::banghead:
    I will say the man, has never tried the military angle.
     
  19. tarosean

    tarosean Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    7,191
    Location:
    TX
    That's been my experience.

    Heck, I had to read a friends book just to find out some stuff I never knew.
     
  20. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Spit & hugs?.....

    As a US armed forces veteran, Id rather have the general public have hugs or cookies then being spit on or having rocks thrown at me. :rolleyes:

    I heard many "GIs" in the late 1960s or 1970s were advised not to wear dress uniforms when using civilian aircraft.

    Rusty
    PS; Not all veterans or troops were treated poorly. A co-worker & 083 police officer who served as a MP in SE Asia told me when he came home, he went to a local blue collar bar & didn't pay for a drink all night. :D
     
  21. Nom de Forum

    Nom de Forum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,756
    Location:
    Arizona
    I completely agree plenty of Vets deserve recognition, but it is a slap in their face when an insincere display of the recognition is made.
     
  22. powder

    powder member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Midwest
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2014
  23. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,844
    Location:
    South Carolina
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice