Walmart is the single worst place to buy ammo right now... they were the first to run out and they'll be the last to maintain inventory. It would get better faster if they would adjust their pricing to the market conditions so that it was less profitable for the AMMO-OLIGARCHS sucking up all the inventory to sell at gun shows.
Stop Buying Ammo For a Month...
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Haven't bought any in a while except for 7.62x54r which seems to immune. Needed a new freezer so I sold 3 bicks of 22 on GB for a conbined $311. What I'm more surprised by is the price o "assault weapons". Fineswine's bill got thrown out, there is no AWB, at least for now. I've been watching a few and the bidding seems to have slowed down a bit but I'm still seeing stuff for almost twice what it should be going for.
ZeSpectre
Member
Jumpin Jaysis, I just sent petition letters to the major ammo manufacturers trying to get some ammo for my club's annual "youth training day" and "ladies training day" 'cause even though the club has funds we can't FIND any damned ammo for sale.
helitack32f1
Member
I think everyone forgets that this entire rush on ammo was timed perfectly to coincide with the Dept. of Homeland Security ordering 1.6 BILLION rounds of ammo. I believe this is all by design to create the shortage. Manufacturers could possibly have seen a run on ammo coming but I doubt they saw that coming in conjunction with an order of 1,600,000,000 rounds by our overseers.
Just to put that in perspective, DHS claims to have 100,000 people to buy ammo for. That works out to 16,000 rounds of ammo for each, so they can fire 43 rounds a day, for 365 days.
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clutch
Contributing Member
Last week I picked up a box of Federal .223 and two boxes of tulammo 7.62x39 at a walmart up north. The three box limit is in effect.
The grocery store near work has WW .308 180g on most days. I bought a rifle in .308 in December and thought it wouldn't be hard to buy new brass, bullets, dies to get rolling ammo for it. I had to resort to purchasing loaded ammo to get brass.
After a couple months of trying I have dies, 190g HPBT and 168g HPBT's to load into the brass once I fire it.
I have 160 rounds of factory ammo waiting for the snow to melt, once I shoot a box or two, I can start load development.
I last purchased bulk pack .22 lr on Dec 27th. I'm not a fan of golden bullets but the box was sitting there and I had a gift cart. Tomorrow, I have two bricks of Eley showing up via ups which makes it 3 months between .22 LR buys. The other 14,000 rounds of rimfire were purchased before the election.
In fairness to walmart and the grocery store I buy at, they have kept their prices in line and haven't taken advantage of the situation. Companies like CTD are dead to me.
Last night I managed to order .356 and .401 sizer dies for my lubersizer. I put molds for 9mm and 10mm on back order with a place that will ship complete when they come in.
Since I haven't paid extra for anything, I think I may have saved money by slowing down my rate of purchase of gun stuff.
I feel for those that are not paying attention and decide to head to the range on a spring day after stopping for ammo. They are likely going to be very disappointed.
I have fair amount of components. Each event seems to raise what I think is reasonable to have on hand and I replace what I shoot as I shoot it. I'm not causing the shortage, I've been part of demand for a long time, I'm planned in. A lot of us are planned in. Darn newbies.
The grocery store near work has WW .308 180g on most days. I bought a rifle in .308 in December and thought it wouldn't be hard to buy new brass, bullets, dies to get rolling ammo for it. I had to resort to purchasing loaded ammo to get brass.
After a couple months of trying I have dies, 190g HPBT and 168g HPBT's to load into the brass once I fire it.
I have 160 rounds of factory ammo waiting for the snow to melt, once I shoot a box or two, I can start load development.
I last purchased bulk pack .22 lr on Dec 27th. I'm not a fan of golden bullets but the box was sitting there and I had a gift cart. Tomorrow, I have two bricks of Eley showing up via ups which makes it 3 months between .22 LR buys. The other 14,000 rounds of rimfire were purchased before the election.
In fairness to walmart and the grocery store I buy at, they have kept their prices in line and haven't taken advantage of the situation. Companies like CTD are dead to me.
Last night I managed to order .356 and .401 sizer dies for my lubersizer. I put molds for 9mm and 10mm on back order with a place that will ship complete when they come in.
Since I haven't paid extra for anything, I think I may have saved money by slowing down my rate of purchase of gun stuff.
I feel for those that are not paying attention and decide to head to the range on a spring day after stopping for ammo. They are likely going to be very disappointed.
I have fair amount of components. Each event seems to raise what I think is reasonable to have on hand and I replace what I shoot as I shoot it. I'm not causing the shortage, I've been part of demand for a long time, I'm planned in. A lot of us are planned in. Darn newbies.
helitack32f1
Member
Soooo, you really think that civilians buying ammo is affecting price and availability but the Gov't procuring enough ammo to supply the Iraq war for 16 years has no effect? Interesting concept.
CJW
Member
In my view, to stop buying ammo is to do exactly what the antis want. They want to make it so expensive that people just quit. There is a simple equation to keep in mind....the more ammo we buy, the more we will have, and the more we will vex the anti-gun crowd that wants to restrict it. There are always good deals to be found if you look. I say: keep looking, keep buying, keep the industry strong, and get as much ammo as possible into the private sector before the .gov either buys it all, restricts it, or taxes it into oblivion.
absolutely. There is no hope of stoping paranoid hoarders so you shouldn't even try. I just keep away from places where ammo is sold.
What it almost is, or almost isn't, doesn't matter. What it actually is, does. What it is, unfortunately appears to be reality.
Yes, actually I have a very good idea of how much ammunition has been soaked up because I spend a good deal of my time studying such things.
In my area, they usually stock a number of brands in the practice ammo. The Federal and WWB 100 packs are the two staples, but I also see Remington 100 packs, Tula, RWS, Winchester and other practice ammunition brands for sale in 9mm.
I would be quite interested in seeing some evidence to support this claim.
I see you missed (or ignored) part of my earlier reply. Here it is again.
You are correct for the most part as to the original & primary cause of the current shortage but your statement misses the primary point which is that once the shortage is in effect, it can be maintained, and is being maintained by a relatively small number of people.
We all understand why and how this started, but not many people understand how easy it is to keep it going once it's in full swing and the ammunition supply chain has been essentially emptied of popular calibers.
Actually, you said "200 cases" initially and then later in that post said 100s of boxes or 10 cases. Doesn't matter, it's all an exaggeration over what I'm seeing in this area and what I'm reading that others are seeing in their area.
What's happening here is that the local Wal-Marts are, at best, getting in a case or two of 9mm ammunition every couple of weeks or so. In the case of the ubiquitous 100 packs, that amounts to 10-20 boxes every 14 days.
Sure, I can see someone not getting ammo out for half a day or so, especially if it comes in during a rush period, but that's not even remotely similar to the impression that a claim like the one you originally posted is intended to convey. Here is what you said:
"They say that they don't have time to put it out. So there may be 200 cases of ammo in the back in the gun room. They don't just leave it out.
...
...they end up with not enough time to put ammo out. "
...
...they end up with not enough time to put ammo out. "
At the Wal-Mart nearest my house, they freely tell the customers what time the restocking truck deliveries arrive, and the ammo shelves, within an hour or so of the predicted time, are stocked with whatever the list said was going to arrive. That's part of how it came about that there is a small but dedicated group of folks camping out for 3 hrs or more waiting for the truck to come in and for the shelves to be stocked.
You might want to reread the thread.
First of all, to be perfectly accurate, I didn't say they were doing it every day, I said that they were camping out "waiting for each ammunition shipment that comes in." The shipments don't come in every day, so they don't camp out every day.
Second, other members have said that in their area, people are camping out on a regular basis, and we have one member who claims to have camped out daily at a local store for ammo purchases since January.
It certainly appears that there are adequate second and first person reports to strongly support the claim that the shortage is being maintained by a relatively small number of buyers.
Well, yes, of course the normal demand is still there on top of the panic buyers, but the normal demand isn't what is the problem. It obviously isn't enough to cause the shortage, and while it will slow the recovery, it also clearly doesn't make sense to posit that normal demand will keep the shortage from ending.
Again, I think you need to read what I've actually said. I didn't claim that these were ammo flippers in my initial post, and in my second post on this thread, I made this comment.
"I think it's very likely that at least some of them are buying to resell, but I don't think it's a given that all of them are. "
It really doesn't matter, from a practical perspective, what they're doing with the ammunition, the bottom line is that they're keeping the Wal-Mart shelves bare and that's keeping the shortage alive in the minds of the millions of people in the U.S. who use Wal-Mart as their primary retailer.
Well, that was true a month or so ago, but now it's progressed further than that. It's hard to find anything in 9mm, and when you can, even if you want to purchase expensive stuff, you're likely have to take what's available. That often means only one loading in one brand, rather than being able to select options like bullet weight and manufacturer as would normally be the case.
Whether they know or not, they don't have the option of expanding ammunition to completely meet large short term demand spikes. That would involve expansion and the purchase of additional machinery. Then when the demand spike was over, they would end up with unused floor space and millions of dollars of machinery sitting unused. It would bankrupt them.
They can only ramp up production by a limited amount unless it's clear that the demand increase is going to be permanent. Even then, expansion will be limited to meeting only as much as is warranted by the permanent increase. They will always be unable to fully respond to temporary large spikes in demand.
That is incorrect.
1. There are more like 150,000 federal LEOs who would be the recipients of this ammunition in the form of training and issue ammunition.
2. The contract is not a single year contract, it is a 4-5 year contract.
3. The contract is not an actual order, it is an option contract. That is, it gives the DHS to right to purchase UP TO the stated amount over 4-5 years.
Even if you assume the full 1.6Billion is purchased (even though that's only the top limit amount), it still only works out to about 2100 rounds per federal agent per year. It's not at all an unreasonable amount given their requirements.
That's not correct. It's not the primary reason, nor is the procurement evidence of conspiracy, but clearly the government, both military and LE use a lot of ammunition. That usage contributes to the overall demand level, and clearly plays a part in the current situation.
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I reload, so I can shoot some, though I won't burn through hundreds of rounds during a visit to the range.
As for supplies, at the local WM, a 24 hour store, the fella who manages ammo told me that people show up at midnight with other folk to buy up what he gets. LGS told me the same story. While they also limit customers to three boxes, they recognized the customers who are coming in with friends to get around the limit.
So I just have to deal with it for now, and save to buy ammo and components when they are cheaper and more plentiful. That day will come. When? We'll all see.
As for supplies, at the local WM, a 24 hour store, the fella who manages ammo told me that people show up at midnight with other folk to buy up what he gets. LGS told me the same story. While they also limit customers to three boxes, they recognized the customers who are coming in with friends to get around the limit.
So I just have to deal with it for now, and save to buy ammo and components when they are cheaper and more plentiful. That day will come. When? We'll all see.
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
when this gets better..... Gun owners need to re-adjust to the new potential reality that every 4 years there can be a run on guns & ammo. (And eventually one of these times, it might be the govt actually pulling off what we all fear)
I happen to believe that there is more than panic buying going on, but of course cant know other than what I read.
As part of our protection of all our rights, including the 2nd amendment. We need to plan to ensure our rights, against panic mobs as well as governmental interfierance. HOW? when this ends, and I think it will. Look back on this and ask yourselves if you whan to be waiting at walmart at 2:00am to be able to exercise your most fundimental right.....
Stack it deep, stack it safe, but stack it.
I happen to believe that there is more than panic buying going on, but of course cant know other than what I read.
As part of our protection of all our rights, including the 2nd amendment. We need to plan to ensure our rights, against panic mobs as well as governmental interfierance. HOW? when this ends, and I think it will. Look back on this and ask yourselves if you whan to be waiting at walmart at 2:00am to be able to exercise your most fundimental right.....
Stack it deep, stack it safe, but stack it.
Oklacoyotekiller
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I have to agree with you john. A quick search on gun broker and there are people on there with thousands of rounds of 22lr. Saw several with many different auctions some totaling over 10,000 rnds. All going for horribly high prices.
Prices never went up... Where I live... And I can find any caliber except 22 Lr... Of course 223 is a hard find as well...One store might be put but just go across town and they will have cases upon cases.
I don't mean to brag, just not seeing a jump in price. I've heard the horror stories. But don't see them.
Give up buying ammo for a month? That will be the day! I buy what I need to go to the range. I buy a little extra defense ammo for my 40's. And load enough 22-250 for prairie dogs.
I can see stocking up if your a competitive shooter and you need to supply your season. Or buying a a small stash of defense ammo. But buying a million rounds just and not even shooting any of it? Or trying to sell it for double the price? Then turning around and complaining about not finding ammo... Your a special kind of special!
I think things are getting better. Actually saw an AR last week for a normal price.
I'm just glad the economy is thriving due to the firearms industry!
In God and Glock we Trust
Oklacoyotekiller
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Yeah. I probly got enough 22-250 and load supplies to last me quite awhile. Wish i had more 22lr but got nuff to last awhile.
there is plenty of ammo around me. The problem is it's priced so high that it won't actually move. All the cheaper shooting stuff is gone. Hollowpoints and Hornady is everywhere though.
Tons of ARs, too - albeit at $1400 for a Bushmaster and 1200 for a DPMS -__-
Hopefully it will come down once the AWB2013 bill dies - like it is speculated.
Tons of ARs, too - albeit at $1400 for a Bushmaster and 1200 for a DPMS -__-
Hopefully it will come down once the AWB2013 bill dies - like it is speculated.
FROGO207
Member
I have not purchased any finished ammo for at least 2 years. I only purchased a few lead bullets now and again. I learned from past problems how to act. Just happy I had the cash to do it.
OilyPablo
Member
It might help temporarily, but the supply chain itself will be no better in 30 days, and no one will abide but such a "boycott" any way.
Same thread, different title:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8831033
I wrote:
Same thread, different title:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8831033
I wrote:
I have found ammo plenty of times in the past three months including at Walmart though that is rare. I go to Walmart twice per week virtually every week and the shelvex are bare other than basic hunting rounds. I visit several LGS/pawn shops every week and they all have ammo in stock albeit at inflated prices. People are buying most of it. .223 and .22 LR seem to be the hardest to find with 9mm being next.
I found .22 Mag online this week at Grafs.
I found .223 online this week at Cabela's.
I found 9mm online this week at Cabela's.
All of these were at affordable prices though maybe not pre-panic prices and all were compliments of Gunbot.
I have not found any cheap .22 since December.
I found .22 Mag online this week at Grafs.
I found .223 online this week at Cabela's.
I found 9mm online this week at Cabela's.
All of these were at affordable prices though maybe not pre-panic prices and all were compliments of Gunbot.
I have not found any cheap .22 since December.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
Member
I haven't bought ammo since late November or early December.
pockets
Member
Okay, I will not buy any ammo in the next month.
Actually......I haven't bought any ammo in at least 3 years.
Prior to the 2008-2009 panic, I had stocked up on a lot of types. Then, after the 2008-2009 panic, I restocked....then overstocked when boxes went on sale.
I figured on a few things happening; (1) the cost of materials for ammo and the finished product itself just gets higher, (2) fear induced panic will probably now occur every 4 years regardless of who is in office, and (3) ammo isn't crate of bananas...it'll remain quite shoot-able for the number of years I have left on this Earth.
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Actually......I haven't bought any ammo in at least 3 years.
Prior to the 2008-2009 panic, I had stocked up on a lot of types. Then, after the 2008-2009 panic, I restocked....then overstocked when boxes went on sale.
I figured on a few things happening; (1) the cost of materials for ammo and the finished product itself just gets higher, (2) fear induced panic will probably now occur every 4 years regardless of who is in office, and (3) ammo isn't crate of bananas...it'll remain quite shoot-able for the number of years I have left on this Earth.
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Certaindeaf
member
But if I don't buy it from walmart and resell it for four times what I paid for it, how will the needy get their ammo?
just kidding!
just kidding!
Oklacoyotekiller
Member
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Wal mart in chandler,ok has 6 bxs wwb 45 on shelf
You are correct. I meant "boxes" not "cases" of ammuntion. I saw this two days ago in the Tupelo Walmart. I got curious to see the waiting hordes of people set to swoop down so I loaded up and went. They had ammo. Some .22 Magnum. Federal 9mm. Even saw some .45ACP and .40S&W. Did I see hoards of guys standing around buying ammo? No, I saw a man and woman--presumably his wife--buying some 9mm Federal 100 round boxes. No one else was around. I went over, looked in the ammo display and they didn't have anything I wanted. There was a guy there who was unloading boxes of .22 Magnum Winchesters behind his sales desk. Looked to be about 3 cases of it. There were other cases of ammunition there but I do not know what they were. As I say, I saw boxes of .45ACP and .40 caliber on the shelves. I think it would easily have reached 200 boxes of differing calibers behind his desk though. Those boxes may very well have been stored in the back gun room until this fellow dragged them out that morning for shelving. What I did not see were people lined up ten thick waiting to buy those boxes of .45 and .40.
Why did I not see that? Because at the Walmarts around here they do not "freely tell" anyone when the stocking truck is going to arrive...because they usually do not know what is on the truck until perhaps the day before. Your Walmart may have more people working in sporting goods who would take the time to print out this report, tape it on an announcement board or in some other way inform the public. It doesn't happen that way here.
Because it doesn't happen like that here, the small cadre of people buying up all the ammo (as you have said) will have to investigate the issue of whether Walmart has ammo every day. They can do this by 1)having a relative or other inside source working at Walmart who can tell them that ammo has arrived, or 2) by loading up and going down to the store to look. To do this efficiently would mean you would would have to go every day to Walmart so that you would not "miss out". So if you are willing to waste gas every day driving to Walmart at 7 AM in order to find out if they might or might not have ammo...more power to ya. The profit margin on "flipping" this ammo and reselling it at a higher price might not be profitable at all after you subtract out gas expense.
Your premise that the SHORTAGE is being maintained by a small number of people is centered around Walmart availability of ammo. You're wrong in assuming that a small number of people are doing this. The truth is that HUGE numbers of people are keeping ammo out of general circulation. They did it by backordering ammunition in gigantic quantities. They've paid for that ammo months ago. The companies that provide that ammo have got to give this ammo to the people who have already paid for it. This process is keeping ammunition from general distribution to Walmart and others because the ammunition produced is being sent to people who already paid for it. The pitifully few boxes that are then doled out to Walmart technically should not be going to Walmart at all. Some guy who ordered ammo on backorder is probably not getting his because the vendors are electing to divert some to Walmart, because Walmart is a huge customer and you have to give them something to keep them happy. If this ammo was not going to Walmart, it would still not be used to increase a surplus because it would instead be shipped to people who were waiting on their backorders to be filled.
So the premise that "small numbers" buying from Walmart are creating a shortage is flat wrong. Huge numbers of people are buying ammo. Most of them not at Walmart but online or directly from the companies. The pitifully few boxes coming to Walmart, even if they were not being instantly bought up by customers who have not backordered (which of course, they are being bought up) would have little or no impact on the availability of ammo..Until Backorders Are Caught Up. So the people at Walmart are NOT to blame for a shortage. ALL OF US are responsible for a shortage. Anyone of us who has bought ammo or seeks to do so.
But don't kid yourself or try to blame one group over another for causing this mess, it's in the pipeline already. Until backorders are filled, there's going to be a shortage. Get use to it.
blarby
Member
Month ?
Pfft, I havn't bought any in far longer than that.
I bought some 22- but it was for a friend who was goin nutty- not myself.
Except that box of steel .308 to see if my wifes VEPR would kill even those cases without a buffer.
It did, FWIW.
Pfft, I havn't bought any in far longer than that.
I bought some 22- but it was for a friend who was goin nutty- not myself.
Except that box of steel .308 to see if my wifes VEPR would kill even those cases without a buffer.
It did, FWIW.
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