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Stop the madness!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Old Dog, Nov 19, 2020.

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  1. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    So, we all know (if we’ve been participating in internet discussion forums for even a minute) that, on occasion, folks will start a thread asking a question or questions about particular firearm. Often, a thread will start with someone asking whether they should buy this gun or that gun (X vs. Y) and inevitably, someone will chime in, disclosing they have no experience with either gun, but still go ahead and suggest a completely different gun (usually their favorite brand/model).

    Quite often, a poster will recommend a gun that doesn’t even meet the OP’s parameters (a recent thread had someone suggesting a five-shot J-frame when the poster was looking for folks experienced with either the Colt Cobra (six shot) or Kimber K6 (six shot). While alternative suggestions can sometimes be helpful, usually what happens is that the thread then devolves into every poster touting their personal favorite.

    My example was -- "Should I buy a SA Hellcat or SIG P365" with a responder stating, "No, buy a Glock" ... ("Buy a Glock," for some reason seems to be such a common refrain; perhaps too many people on the internet believe the movie U.S. Marshals with Tommy Lee Jones contained the ultimate in firearms advice.)

    Another comment we see is along the lines of, “I have never owned either of these, but have you thought about buying a XXXXX?” (completely different firearm, often not even similar in size, capacity, weight or action)

    Are we all such experts on everything, or do we all have such oversize egos that we all need to come across as The Expert on Everything, regardless of whether or not we have an experience with a particular firearm?

    In these times, with all the new folks joining our community, it’s just my opinion, but let’s try and give credible advice. To me, that means not indulging in the common hyperbole, not perpetuating internet myths, not constantly regurgitating the same old crapping on products from years ago (their QC sucks/their frames break/the cops keep having NDs with this pistol/the guns will fire without the trigger being pulled/the company’s CEO is an idiot/there were reports of the gun malfunctioning during Desert Storm/I was put on hold for four hours when I called customer service/MIM is a bad, bad thing/that caliber is useless for (pick one: self-defense/hunting). I could go on and on … but I won’t.

    Just seems to me that credibility is now more important than ever. We should quit repeating internet myths, quite referring to third-hand reports, quit spouting anecdotal criticisms with no documentation, and quit making recommendations about things we ourselves have never actually used.

    Let's just talk about what we know.
     
  2. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    So, to sum it up...no fake news!
     
  3. marksman13

    marksman13 Member

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    Agreed.
     
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  4. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    STOP THAT!

    This is the INTERNET, man! We'll have NO common sense, NO use of polite language, and for DARN sure we'll have NO use for comments which don't deviate from the topic at hand!

    What were you thinking, man?

    Why just the other day I was talking to my oldest daughter about a pair of water shoes I ordered for her trip to Oahu while I'm here on business. I think pink is an awesome color, especially since she's really into bright colors.

    :neener:

    Seriously, this bugs me, too. Sometimes I try to "bring things back on track" by quoting the OP's question(s) and specifically addressing them again.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't always work.

    Fortunately, we have good moderators on this site which help either drag things back on track if they get too out of hand, or lock the threads after a time.
     
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  5. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    Agree with what the OP posted but lets not forget it is human nature to perceive from what is actually written and than translate it into what one thinks they read. Common example is the Bible . So many translations and so many mis-interpretations. One of the major reasons that posts on forums take a scenic route is because the level of reading comprehension is not there. Best we can do is to be tolerant in certain cases as we have many many novice shooters lacking knowledge who need guidance, and when posts take a detour, live it up to the OP to keep it on track, or do as I do and ignore what is irrelevant .
     
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  6. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Unfortunately, when people don't know much about a particular topic, they tend to significantly over-estimate their expertise on that topic.

    Because they don't know much about the topic, they don't have enough information/expertise to accurately assess their own competence to speak on the topic and they tend to rate their knowledge level on that topic much higher than they should.

    Ironically, as a person becomes highly expert, they tend to rate their level of expertise somewhat lower than they should because they understand the complexities of the topic that a person with less knowledge/expertise may be unaware of or may have an oversimplified "understanding" of.

    This is a very important lesson to learn before you rely on someone. If you have two people who are equally inexpert, the one who will cause the most trouble is the one who doesn't understand his limitations.

    The person who thinks he is an expert but is not--who has rated his expertise as being much higher than he should--is the one who will take on tasks that he is unqualified to perform, or make decisions without the proper knowledge and that's when the true disasters happen.

    A person who realizes--"Hey, I don't really understand that topic." or "I don't have the training/expertise to do that task." may not be helpful, but at least they're much less likely to jump into something they shouldn't--much less likely to have the confidence to make decisions when they don't know what they're doing. And, since they realize that they don't understand, they're tremendously more likely to try to learn more or get more training, or ask for help. The first step in learning is realizing that learning is required.

    In other words, what you want is a good thing. It's also very reasonable to want it. It will not be happening. Because humans.

    Here's more reading on the topic.
    https://www.researchgate.net/public...ncompetence_Lead_to_Inflated_Self-Assessments
     
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  7. James Fonteneaux

    James Fonteneaux Member

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    I agree with the OP, and @JohnKSa . I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about firearms and their use until I started lurking here. I found out very soon how little I actually knew. Not a bad thing though, well except for my wallet :thumbdown:. I take the point about new, possibly impressionable viewers/members to heart because, for the most part, I am one. I read A LOT on here, but post little. It took me years to join. If there is something that I've had firsthand experience with, I'm glad to share it. It's perfectly normal that I may be into an aspect of the hobby another poster isn't. So what? The important thing is that there are new owners (maybe even shooters) joining the ranks every day. I think we all bear some responsibility to be good stewards of the knowledge and wisdom that we've gained. A lot of young people view what they read online as gospel, we shouldn't be filling their heads with crap. With all due respect: If we intend to keep this passion/hobby/pastime alive, we can't just be a bunch of gray haired old farts sitting around swapping BS at the gun counter.
     
  8. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    I like the threads where are the original poster explicitly states that he's looking for a revolver and not five answers in somebody's telling him to get a Glock or a shotgun.
     
  9. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Gun forums are mecca for gun "experts" and budding psychics.
    i-corrected-someone-who-was-wrong-on-the-internet.jpg
     
  10. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    :D See my Sig line.
    I like nothing better than deleting derp, noise and off topic thread drift.
    Have at it gentlemen, your doing the forum a service:evil:
     
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  11. FFGColorado

    FFGColorado Member

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    Stop yer internet whining and just buy a Glock................



    what seems to be lacking sometimes, here and other, non gun forums I frequent, is a sense of humor. Maybe a sign of these times, I donno but people seem kinda ‘stressed’..:thumbup:
     
  12. VoodooMountain

    VoodooMountain Member

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    I agree that this does happen a lot. Sometimes from myopia and sometimes just the fan boys.

    Other times this happens because there may very well be a better option that wasn't even asked for.

    Such as a person asking what subcompact carry gun they should get. If the shooter is new or has a small budget it is very likely they would be better off with something other than a sub compact.

    New shooters or shooters new to a certain area of firearms are often going to miss certain aspects that veteran shooters already know.

    How often is that Nano going to the range? Is the G26 really better for home defense without a light rail?
    That 223 rifle has a 1/12 twist wheras brand Y has 1/7.
    The mags on that pistol are $65.
    The CS from that company is terrible.
    Eye relief on that scope is marginal
    Etc...


    A lot of shooters have learned lessons and are passing on useful information outside the intended scope of the original question. I have learned a lot from this site and others for that reason.
     
  13. drband

    drband Member

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    Nice effort by the OP, really. I agree.

    On-line forums being what they are, the good posters generally stick to topics they know, but the wider crowd often goes off the rails.

    The exhortation is appreciated, @Old Dog, but I think the suggestion will be lost on the regular offenders.
     
  14. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    That's all well and good you you should post about protecting out RKBA instead, it's much more important :evil:
     
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  15. Bennj

    Bennj Member

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    I would suggest that sometimes people will post something extolling the virtues of model C, when OP only really wanted to know about opinions on model A and model B because they want to be helpful. Maybe they think that the OP wasn't aware of model C and it's supposed superiority over A and B. Heck, I almost did it myself the other day regarding the post "online gun stores NOT to buy from" when I was going to post the online stores I thought were the best to buy from.
     
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  16. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    I've found that there are any number of extremely knowledgeable and experienced members here. Other members who post uninformed or misleading comments get shot down rather quickly. Either they learn to conform or they don't. Compared with other forums and most social media, I really don't think that the concerns expressed by the OP are all that big of a problem here.
     
  17. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I have finally realized that if you ask for a product recommendation, in a couple of pages you will have had testimonials for everything remotely suitable and a lot that is not, leaving you no wiser than before.
     
  18. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    I totally agree.

    What gets me is when there is a good discussion going on Brand A Model 1 talking about the good and the bad of that particular firearm and some one will post a comment like " Brand A is junk, just buy Brand C and be done with it"

    Or when someone asks about a specific firearm or caliber/gauge and is told not to bother with it and get something else because the person responding doesn't like the OP's choices.

    This type of stuff happens on all forums that I frequent. Myself, if I don't have anything useful to add to the conversation, I don't comment and go on.
     
  19. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    On the "madness" scale, thread drift regarding particular gun recommendations doesn't rank very high.
     
  20. pharmer

    pharmer Member

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    A S&W model 10 because no one in the room is professional enough to handle a Glock. Joe
     
  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    A Glock because you are not smart enough to operate and maintain a 1911.
     
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  22. George P

    George P Member

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  23. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Crap folks. It’s a BS session Using a keyboard. No different that talk among group of enthusiasts on any given subject. Here it’s a bunch of strangers using funny names. Gets a little out of hand, don’t read it, too far out and it gets locked. Human nature. IMO. ;)
     
  24. I6turbo

    I6turbo Member

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  25. reddog81

    reddog81 Member

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    I agree and some of the random recommendations are comical, but the even funnier thing is that often times the person doing the recommendation is 100% serious.
    Question - Should I get a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500? Random response - A Glock 19 is all you need.
     
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