Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Stop the traitor!

Discussion in 'Legal' started by MicroBalrog, Aug 16, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
  2. telomerase

    telomerase Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,352
    Location:
    The bear-infested hills of Grafton NH
    One can understand Ashcroft's thinking; from his point of view, sitting at the top of the Total Information Awareness network, our liberties may seem like "phantoms" to him.
     
  3. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    That all depends on what laws you uphold.

    Janet Reno was all about upholding the law, and she sure ain't on my hit parade of favorite AG's... ;)
     
  4. telomerase

    telomerase Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,352
    Location:
    The bear-infested hills of Grafton NH
    >From REASON mag: Fair-weather federalist John Ashcroft sent his Justice Department after doctors in Oregon who might, in accordance with state laws, prescribe lethal medicines to terminally ill patients who request them. Ashcroft declared in November his intention to make sure that doctors who did so would lose their license to prescribe any federally controlled drug, effectively putting them out of the doctoring business. In conducting such investigations, he instructed the Drug Enforcement Administration to examine state records about drugs prescribed, information that doctors complying with Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act are required to file. Oregon’s attorney general sued to stop Ashcroft. The case is now before a U.S. district judge who has stayed Ashcroft’s order pending his decision. The question is expected to end up before the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Actually it was worse than this; many doctors became reluctant to prescribe any strong painkillers to terminally ill patients, because if the patient took an overdose the doctor could run afoul of Ashcroft and lose their license. I don't think there's any Constitutional mandate for the Federal government to police our bloodstreams at all, but trying to force terminally ill people to undergo more pain has to be near the lowest you can stoop (no fair comparing past attorney generals here, Tamara...)
     
  5. Zedicus

    Zedicus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,976
    Location:
    Idaho
    Many Like to Justify things with the old Contrivercal Saying of "The End Justifys the Means!" but they fail to realise that the wind blows both ways and the same also applys in reverse.
     
  6. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    In all fairness, it gives me no end of giggles to see DemLeftLibs slagging the Ashcroft Justice Dept. and the Komittee for State Security when the whole thing's been a wonderfully bipartisan effort and would, no doubt, have been just as festive, if not more so, if it had been enacted under such paragons of individual rights as those in the Clinton/Gore/Reno regime. :scrutiny:
     
  7. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,616
    Location:
    Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX)
    Tamara gets it in one... :D

    And just think what the liberal Demon-Rats will do with those laws if they return to power... :what:
     
  8. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,227
    Location:
    True West...Hotel California
    microbalrog

    The failings of the Patriot Act aside, what's the state of civil
    liberties in Israel these days? Just wondering.
     
  9. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    Bad.:fire:

    Our gun control laws are bad too, does that mean I can't criticize the AWB?:D
     
  10. longeyes

    longeyes member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,227
    Location:
    True West...Hotel California
    I oppose the AWB too.

    I was asking about civil liberties in general in areas related, say,
    to provisions of the PA.
     
  11. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Location:
    The State of Israel - aka Gun Nut Hell
    Many of the provisions of the PA would be considered outrageous even here, such as the one about "secret seizure".:)
     
  12. Duncan Idaho

    Duncan Idaho member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    The early years of WWIII
  13. Jim March

    Jim March Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I agree with both MicroBalrog and Tamara. I think Ashcroft has acted like a mad dog in too many areas, I think Reno was worse (although I'm not certain by how much), and the Dems have gleefully taken part in the dismantling of civil liberties.

    I am particularly bothered by secret charges, investigations and trials for US citizens, and the denials of legal counsel. The case of the Intel engineer in...Oregon I think?...was a case in point. Four months after incarceration, he "confesses". He's been held so incommunicado, that could have been beaten out of him. :scrutiny:

    Horsecrap. Terror-related charges can be dealt with in ordinary courts of law, although you wouldn't know it from the McVeigh trial :fire:.
     
  14. sw442642

    sw442642 member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    195
    All these laws will quickly be used for anything else the government wants.
    Ashcroft is not a friend of liberty. He is a friend of his own restricted view of
    America. The man is scared of a stone breast.

    I doubt that any of these new laws will do squat. The reason 9/11 wasn't
    detected was stupidity, not the laws.
     
  15. Seminole

    Seminole Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    689
    Location:
    Where the west begins
    That's odd. . . . I thought he took an oath to uphold the Constitution.

    IMHO Ashcroft is doing a great job of promoting and upholding unconstitutional laws. Of course, he's not the first Attorney General to do so. And he won't be the last. . . .
     
  16. KC

    KC Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    <fnord>
    "I think Reno was worse..."

    Oh come on, give the guy a chance.
    Reno had eight years to abuse her authority. Ashcroft has not had half the time she did.
     
  17. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,058
    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    I also would think Ashcroft was a fine attorney general, if it weren't for these pesky issues like rights.
     
  18. Duncan Idaho

    Duncan Idaho member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    The early years of WWIII
    Is it considered rude to yawn at trolls and their agitprop?
     
  19. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    9,325
    Location:
    Hoosieropolis
    No, but it is considered rude to use insults and ad hominem attacks on fellow THR members.
     
  20. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,354
    Location:
    Southern Florida
    Duncan, just whom are YOU calling a troll? You remind me SO much of a local cop here, who said to me,"Don't tell me about any laws, I don't like your attitude!" (after blatantly lying to me about physical facts before his eyes, as an excuse for falsely detaining me) Our Constitution is (somewhat) beautiful, our govt is run by bullies, like all others!
     
  21. Orthonym

    Orthonym Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    1,354
    Location:
    Southern Florida
    Sorry, Tamara, got carried away a little there. I think our posts crossed. Oh, and sorry, Duncan.:eek:
     
  22. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Going out to the thin end of a weak limb...

    Traitors, oath breakers, all the rest of those 'public servents' who swore an oath before God Almighty to uphold and defend the Constituion, then think nothing of breaking that oath to serve their own end. All of em, down to the last man or woman, deserve nought but:

    a) the end of rope.

    b) show a suitable backstop and dully ventalated.

    c) escorted to the air lock, booted in and cycled out to space sans EVA suit.




    :fire: :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :fire:
     
  23. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    10,755
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    Ashcroft is kind of a mixed bag

    on one hand he says the 2nd amendment applies to individuals, on the other hand, since the Patriot Act, he seems to think the 1st, 4th, 5th and 10th amendments don't exist.


    I think if the patriot act had not become the law of the land, we'd all be praising Ashcroft as a friend of the constitution.

    I can understand one upholding the law (even if we all disagree with it) but there's a difference between upholding a law and championing one ... I think he's crossed that line.


    I still feel great fear for what an Al Gore or Hillary Clinton will do with the Patriot Act :(
     
  24. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    2,998
    Location:
    Kimball, NE
  25. USGuns

    USGuns Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    301
    Location:
    Seattle
    Concrete examples please

    I hear these accusations frequently about the AT John Ashcroft and the Justice Department.

    Can anyone give any specific, re-occuring and documented examples of the AT and the JD habitually abusing Constitutional rights of American citizens?

    Not saying these abuses aren't occuring, I just would like to hear some concrete facts, not accusations, before I come to any judgement.

    Thanks!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page