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Storing Rifle Cartridges: Up or Down?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Saggins, Jan 20, 2017.

?

How do you store your precision rifle cartridges?

  1. Bullet Up

  2. Bullet Down

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  1. Saggins

    Saggins Member

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    Specifically for handloads for long range or precision target shooting. Is it even feasible for bullet tension to be so light the bullets could be vibrated/forced slightly deeper into the cartridges during the drive to the shooting range? Do you store the cartridge bullet up, or bullet down? I understand a lot of people choose bullet up, which makes sense for protecting delicate meplats, but just for discussion sake, if there was a case/powder combination that weighed less than the bullet, would you still store it bullet up? In that case the weight of the bullet is pushing itself into the case with more force than if it were upside down and the case was pushing itself down the bullet, correct? I apologize if this is a dumb question but it just occurred to me while I was reorganizing my reloading bench.

    I acknowledge there is an older thread on this topic, but I was unable to post a reply there.
     
  2. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    Definitely down...

    Or maybe up?

    LOL
     
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  3. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    any which way but loose??
    All my reloaded ammo is dumped into ammo cans. If it vibrates loose going to the range. I did it wrong and just need to smack myself!!
     
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  4. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

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    Up ...The bullet is the weight being pulling down ...

    Down ... The case and powder is being pulled down .... and the meplat bears it all .. even the weight of the bullet also

    So which ever does the least damage .... I am sure you could test by virbrating and shaking in a manner that would be close to what the ammo would experience on a trip to the range .... Pick the method that causes the least damage.....
     
  5. Bart B.

    Bart B. Member

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    The only way I know of to find out how tight (secure?) bullets are gripped by case necks that'll effect ballistics is to determine how much force it takes on the back of the bullet to push it out of the case. That's normally pressure,per square inch in the case multiplied by cross section area of bullet at its diameter.

    The industry standard is bullet release (or pull) force measured in pounds It varies with the amount of interference fit of bullet to case neck, case neck metal properties and friction between bullet and case neck. So, bullets are pulled from case necks and the force required is noted as the release force.

    There's no standard for the force needed to seat bullets. The bullet's release force will be different than its seating force. And it can change over time. The release force amount and spread is what effects bullet ballistics.

    It's possible to calculate any force needed to shift the bullets' position in case necks as they hit something at some speed while in transit and know the bullets' release force so you'll know if bullets can shift. Arsenal rifle service ammo has at least 50 to 60 pounds of release force; 30 caliber match ammo had 20 to 30 pound release forces. I've never measured commercial rifle hunting ammo.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  6. Bartojc

    Bartojc Member

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    Bullet up to avoid any damage to the tip. If your neck tension is correct there should be no worries about anything else.

    -Jeff
     
  7. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    Definitely horizontal, with a slight downward tilt toward projectile.
    This has worked for centuries --- with fine wine anyway. o_O
    Come to think of it, military ammo is stored mostly the same way in GI ammo tins.
    Good luck on quest!
     
  8. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier member

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    I must say! I was a competitive shooter for many years. I have heard many excuses for not keeping them in the Ten Ring? But this is a new one. I missed because my bullets were stored in the wrong direction?
    Are there any Hypotheses that we could study regarding this problem?o_O
     
  9. Saggins

    Saggins Member

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    Not saying that the outcome would result in a "miss" but I know many people are very exacting when it comes to bullet seating depth (otherwise why bother with micrometer seating dies ;). I think it would bother a few if in transport a few bullets crept a little deeper into the case. What I said before if there happened to be a case/powder combo that was lighter than the bullet they propel. Stored bullet up the neck tension is supporting the weight of the bullet, stored bullet down the tension is supporting the weight of case/powder. If the bullet is heavier than the case/powder wouldn't more pressure be exerted on the neck be more with the bullet up?
     
  10. fguffey

    fguffey member

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    I want all the bullet hold I can get and I do not haul ammo in plastic baggies. If I had a concern about hauling ammo it would be for the primer, I do not want anything hitting my primers; I know, I have heard noting will happen but R. Lee said in his book on modern reloading the primer can propel itself off of something that is heavier like the case, bullet and powder fast enough to cut an artery; problem, there are arteries in the human body that are difficult to get a tourniquet around.

    And then there was this shooter/writer, reloader that dropped a baggie, a primer cut an artery on the inside of his upper leg.

    F. Guffey
     
  11. glc24
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    glc24 Contributing Member

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    Well I can't vote in your poll because I do neither of the choices. You should have added a couple more options.
     
  12. NeuseRvrRat

    NeuseRvrRat Member

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    I've got way bigger things to worry about.
     
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  13. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...avoid any damage to the tip..." The tip doesn't matter. Neither does the orientation of said tip. If the ammo gets vibrated/forced so the bullet goes slightly deeper, it wasn't loaded correctly anyway. Anyway, there's more vibration from a cartridge being fired than there'd ever be in your trunk.
    "...why bother with micrometer seating dies..." Exactly.
     
  14. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    With all that's been said, horizontal just may be the answero_O
     
  15. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    bullet down, but thats just how i usually find them in the bottom of my truck....
     
  16. vaalpens

    vaalpens Member

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    Both and on the side. Sometimes the ammo box will dictate if it goes up or down. If I have a choise, then it normally goes up unless it will be difficult to pull out of the box, then it will go down. When the individual ammo boxes are stored inside a 50 cal ammo box, then the bullets normally end up on their sides, unless it makes since to put them down flat, which them means they are stored up or down.

    I think I am confusing myself. Thanks for starting this topic.:cuss:
     
  17. TrickyDick

    TrickyDick Member

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    I would store them bullet down if they had a cavity at the bottom, so the tip wouldn't rest on anything, but they don't. So I store them bullet up because I am OCD and like a flat surface for the casehead to rest on.

    Though, I've considered making my own cartridge box for 7.62x54R due to the rim. Currently they're bullet down because the rim won't fit in the slot.
     
  18. mdi

    mdi Member

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    Actually, it never crossed my mind, not once in 30 years...
     
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  19. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    The case or the bullet slipping due to neck tension issues would be a red herring at most - a wives' tale...

    Tip damage IS something I pay attention to. In plastic cartridge holders, designed to hold tip down, I run tip down - the tips are free floating, so are protected. In cartridge boxes, I run tip up, with a piece of foam on the inside of the lid to prevent too much jump in the box (stops the box from rattling too) so the tip can't run hard into the lid. If I've spent time and effort to uniform and point my bullets, I don't want to distort any of them by simply dropping my cartridge box as I unload it out of the truck.
     
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  20. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    My choice would have been any which way. But that was not a choice! Actually I store mine in Zip Loc freezer bags then stored in USGI ammo cans.
     
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  21. RussellC

    RussellC Member

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    Easily solved. Keep half up, the other half down. I'll give odds, big odds that there is no difference.

    Think about shipping. Have you ever known anyone in the package biz ? I have and they are thrown every which way, are subject to drops off conveyors up to 30 feet, then Lord only knows what happens at wally world's stock room.

    Russellc
     
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  22. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier member

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    Can you imagine rendering your ammunition useless during transportation? Have you ever seen an ammo plant assemble line? The loaded ammo is spit out by the tons.
    If your a reloads are allowing the bullets to shift you need a new neck and seating die. How could you ever feed those lose bulleted rounds through a magazine? Finding an answer to a problem that does not exist is stressful.:D
     
  23. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I think if any bullet movement took place from being handled/packed bullet down, I'd look hard at neck tension...
     
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  24. Bart B.

    Bart B. Member

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    How are you going to measure it in the manner its fired?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  25. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    Assuming that you are using unmodified dies from one of the major manufacturers, cases with a common headstamp and bullets from one of the major manufacturers, neck tension is going to be sufficient that the vibration attributable to transportation in a car or truck over paved roads is not going to cause the bullet to move.

    The people in pursuit of "five-shots-one-hole" and people who make wildcat ammunition do any number of things in pursuit of their goal that can reduce their ammunition's ability to tolerate rough handling, but they should already know who they are and be aware of the consequences of their choices. That's why I store my 5.7mm Johnson rounds in compartmented plastic boxes arranged inside a 50 caliber ammunition can so that the cartridges rest on their side.
     
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