Strange Question on Conceal Carry in Delaware

[nachosgrande]

I am a Delaware resident thinking about getting a Florida out of state permit because it's cheaper, quicker, and much less hassle than a Delaware permit. When I read the law, it clearly states that a Florida out of state permit is valid in Delaware. The law, however, says nothing about Delaware residents using an out of state FL ccw permit. Some people I've talked to say that if you live in DE you have to have a DE permit. That doesn't make sense to me for several reasons, one it is not stipulated in DE law, and two, why would this state give advantages to out of state people if that were true?

 

[sheepdog]

...302-577-8400...

 

[nachosgrande]

Thanks for the number, but my best friend is a prosecutor for the AG's office, and he said he has no idea. We both looked over the law and he said it's too poorly written to answer the question. If I call the prothonotary vs state police vs AG's office, I get a different answer. It's crazy, nobody knows.

 

[Sam1911]

If the law doesn't say you can't, then why not?

There are a lot of thing people will swear are so, simply because they're "common sense." Having to hold a permit from your state of residence to carry there would be one of those. But if the law doesn't say so, then how is one to be prosecuted?

If the state AG's office can't figure out how to make a case out of it (!?!) then I'd say you're pretty far out in the clear!

(But, IANAL.)

-Sam

 

[zoom6zoom]

Normally if there's no law against it, it's legal.

 

[wishin]

Sounds to me like there's a loophole in DE law that makes it perfectly legal to use a FL permit for everyday carry while a DE resident. Make sure you have your AG buddy's phone numbers in your CCW wallet just in case. Wouldn't hurt to have a copy of DE's CCW reciprocity law on you too. I say loophole because it's just that, an end-around to applying for and getting a DE permit. Whatever works.

 

[Delaware_Dan]

I went through the same thing you are going through a couple of years ago. A FL Carry permit is only valid in DE if you are a FL resident who is "visiting" or "passing through". If you are a resident of DE, you have to get your carry permit through the state of DE. Open carry is legal in DE but very frowned upon.

 

[Sam1911]

DE Dan,

That sounds like good information. I'll suggest, though, that the Original Poster would probably like to see the legal citation that establishes this as fact.

See?

Some people I've talked to say that if you live in DE you have to have a DE permit. That doesn't make sense to me ... it is not stipulated in DE law

That way, at least, he can pass it on to his friend at the Attorney General's office so they know the score.

Thanks!
-Sam

 

[Delaware_Dan]

No, it clearly is stipulated in the law, I just didn't save the link to it. I had to look for a while but I found it. I will do some digging to see if I can't find it again.

 

[Delaware_Dan]

This isn't exactly what I was looking for, but it will shed some light.


http://delcode.delaware.gov/sessionlaws/ga142/chp140.shtml


Section 2. Further Amend § 1441 of Title 11 of the Delaware Code by adding thereto a new Subsection “(k)” to read as follows:

Ҥ 1441(k).

The Attorney General shall have the discretion to issue, on a limited basis, a temporary license to carry concealed a deadly weapon to any individual who is not a resident of this State and whom the Attorney General determines has a short-term need to carry such a weapon within this State in conjunction with his or her employment for the protection of person or property. Said temporary license shall automatically expire thirty (30) days from the date of issuance and shall not be subject to renewal , and must be carried at all times while within the State. However, nothing contained herein shall prohibit the issuance of a second or subsequent temporary license. The Attorney General shall have the authority to promulgate and enforce such regulations as may be necessary for the administration of such temporary licenses. No individual shall be issued more than three temporary licenses.”.

Section 3. Further amend §1441 of Title 11 of the Delaware Code by adding thereto a new subsection "(l)" to read as follows:

"(l) All applications for a temporary license to carry a concealed deadly weapon made pursuant to subsection (k) shall be in writing and shall bear a notice stating that false statements therein are punishable by law."

Approved July 11, 2003

 

[Sam1911]

but it will shed some light.

Really? Everything in those paragraphs relates to permits issued by DE itself. Not (even) to DE's recognition of permits issued by other states, to say nothing of DE's recognition of permits issued by other states to DE residents.

I don't mean to be dismissive at all, but how does this even begin to answer the O.P.'s question?

-Sam

 

[Delaware_Dan]

I have already answered the OPs question. The answer is no. If you are a DE resident and you want to legally carry a concealed firearm you must have a DE carry permit. Take my word or don't, it's up to you. You can always call the DE state police and they will tell you the same thing.

 

[Sam1911]

I have already answered the OPs question. The answer is no. If you are a DE resident and you want to legally carry a concealed firearm you must have a DE carry permit. Take my word or don't, it's up to you.

Can you find a specific sentence or paragraph of Delaware State law that says this? I really am inclined to believe you. But whether I believe you or not doesn't change what the law actually says.

You can always call the DE state police and they will tell you the same thing.

They may, but the there is a long track record of various law enforcement officers and organizations offering opinions that were not actually backed up by law.

For example, my local Sheriff's office here in PA advises License to Carry holders that they may not carry a gun in a bar. This is not PA Commonwealth law, and carries no legal weight. But, they feel that they should say so, so they do. They can't prosecute you for it, for it isn't a crime.

In the end, it isn't the State Police that will prosecute you for violation of the law. But, the State's prosecutor is going to have to charge you with a specific crime against a specific law. If the Attorney General's office cannot provide a clear citation one way or another, it is quite possible that such a requirement does not exist.

But I believe you. Really! Just, please find that citation so we can put this to rest.

Many thanks!

-Sam

 

[Samgotit]

I have no clue about DE, but Louisiana is set to change the law next session in regard to out of state permits. A non-resident permit will no longer be valid for a resident according to some very trustworthy sources. It's a good reason to get the permit your state offers in case something similar happens.

 

[nachosgrande]

I appreciate all the replies, but it appears that nobody really knows. The reason it doesn't make sense to me is that Delaware requires you to have five upstanding members of society that you have known for a while in the county that you reside sign a form saying that you are of sound mind to possess this permit. So that means that people that have just moved to Delaware are ineligible to apply for this permit for several years. That just doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Delaware_Dan]

I really wish I could find the article of the law again, it would make things a lot more clear. I can not find the article, but what I can do is give you the names and numbers of my local CCW instructors, who are a lot more well versed in the specific laws on the subject. I know for a fact that you have to have a current DE permit to carry here if you are a resident, and I would do a little more reasearch before going out and about with a concealed handgun. I would hate to read about some poor guy that that overlooked a tiny part of Delawares extensive laws that got made an example of. I would hate to see you lose your freedom and or hard earned money trying to fight this. Do you really want to risk it just because you can't find the revision on Delawares poor excuse for a website? PM me if you want the numbers for the CCW instructors. They know the law to the letter, and can probably point you in the right direction as far as seeing the actual article itself.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Support your state and get the Delaware permit. The more people that have "their" state CCW permits the better off you and the rest of the people are. Improve your states stats...

[reminds me of a liberal looking for the easy way out.]

 

[nachosgrande]

I don't know about easy way out, Bushmaster. FL would give me DE and PA, which I frequently travel to, and the DE permit does not give me PA.

 

[Delaware_Dan]

Make sure you check the specific PA laws as well, you might be good there (just visiting). You just need to find out if you need to be a resident in your permit state.

 

[Sam1911]

Support your state and get the Delaware permit.

I agree with Bushmaster -- in his sentiment. But it is important to understand exactly what is being required of DE permit holders.

Not only does he have to provide all the letters of recomendation, but he also has to have a personal interview with the A.G.'s office, and then appear before a judge and plead his case to be granted the license. O.k., so that's a hassle, and far more intrusive than most states have found any need to be, but I could live with it.

BUT, DE also requires that each applicant takes out a classified ad in a newspaper of your County that reaches a circulation of at least 35% of the population of your zip code (which may not be physically possible in this electronic era!) announcing to the world that they are applying and giving their home address! Not only does this alert (and possibly alarm) your neighbors, whose business your CCW ISN'T, but it also is as good as a sign in front of your house saying, "THERE ARE GUNS HERE!"

Very, very few of us would feel that this is acceptable.

So, while I agree that DE needs to see strong numbers of issued licenses, I really can't fault the O.P. for seeking a less ghastly way of carrying legally.

-Sam

 

[wishin]

^^^
+1
I was ambivalent until now. Go for it!!

 

[Delaware_Dan]

Very, very few of us would feel that this is acceptable.

Who is us? Non DE residents? If you feel the need to carry, and ever have to use your carry gun your name in the back of the paper is going to be the last thing on your mind. DE has plenty of people who carry, so I don't think it's as few as you think. Is it a hassle? Yes. Do you want to carry to protect yourself and loved ones? I would hope so. So getting a DE permit is not as easy as some other states, maybe even a PITA, but the "reward" of being able to legally protect your family is greater IMO.

 

[rmfnla]

Can you get a Florida permit if you are not a resident of that state?

 

[Delaware_Dan]

but it also is as good as a sign in front of your house saying, "THERE ARE GUNS HERE!"

Let me address this. This statement is ludacris. Have you ever seen the DE News Journal? There about 10 pages in the back of "announcements" and I don't think that criminals are scanning the public land bids to scout out potential gun owners. Maybe, maybe %1 even glance through all of the name changes, divorces, etc. It is in no way like hanging a sign on your house that says there are guns here. I agree with you that getting your permit here is a hassle but that statement is absurd.

 

[Delaware_Dan]

Can you get a Florida permit if you are not a resident of that state?

Yes.