Strange question.

[bullseye308]

Someone asked me a stumper today. He is legal to own a pistol but doesn't have one. He has a black powder pistol but no carry permit. Could he legally carry it being that it is black powder without a permit?

My thinking is since they are not regulated it could be ok, but I'm not sure.

Money is tight for him now and at some point he will be getting a pistol and permit, but he feels the need to have something on him until then.

 

[WestKentucky]

Depends on the actual laws of the land. I'm not sure if there's any difference in any state, because most laws are written for "concealed weapons" or some other vague term which is inclusive to almost every imaginable weapon.

 

[Jim Watson]

A lot of jurisdictions ban anything "carried for the purpose of going armed." If you aren't a mechanic, even a screwdriver can be considered a weapon.

CCW permitting requirements seldom go by NFA/GCA definition of "firearm" either.

Tennessee has a training requirement, firing to be done with factory ammunition.

 

[Curator]

If you check with your State's Attorney General I think you'll find that a muzzle loading gun/revolver is not considered a firearm until it is loaded. Carrying it concealed and unloaded may be legal, but loaded it will come under the same regulations as a modern firearm. The same is generally true for cartridge guns made before 1898 considered "antiques." This is a 'grey area" that is confusing. Some State and federal laws are not particularly clear on this, but a letter from your Attorney General would be good to have if you/he are arrested while carrying.

 

[deadin]

It may be an antique (or replica thereof), but it is still a firearm. Read your local laws....

 

[Malamute]

May or not be legally considered "firearm", but may be considered a deadly weapon, no firearm technicality required on that. Concealed carry laws are probably going to apply.

Interested to see what the final determination is if its posted here.

 

[Librarian]

For some reason this confuses people.

Federally, the definition of a firearm excludes antiques - 18 USC 921 (a)(3)

(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

and "antique" is

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

The bulk of the effect is that such items need not, according to the Feds, be transferred through an FFL.

That has almost nothing to do with state laws governing carry.

 

[bullseye308]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. I wasn't thinking about the "with intent of going armed" part and how that will fall into play here. Think he might be SOL.

 

[MedWheeler]

I agree with those that say it's most likely unlawful for him to carry that BP gun now. Since Tennessee requires live-fire training with a cartridge weapon, perhaps he could rent or borrow such a firearm for the training purposes once he can afford at least that part of the game, and then carry his BP gun once permitted.

 

[RavenTai]

Open carry of black powder pistols, (we cannot open carry here) is a running question in Florida, that will not be truly answered until there is a court case. Any volunteers?

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?103969-Legality-of-black-powder-open-carry

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Redlg155]

CCW with black powder would definitely spur some interesting posts...

" Pyrodex or FFG for speedoading?"
"Patched ball or Sabot for self defense?"
"CCW winter clothing, natural vs tanned deer hide for mild weather"
"Flintlock ankle carry....anyone else?"
"What to keep in your "possibles" bag"
"Stocks....curly oak vs maple for durability"

and my favorite. .....drumroll please...." How long is your ramrod?"

 

[mdThanatos]

If this is in Tennessee, based on the near Nashville location from the OP, then

Title 39-11-106(a)(11) states:

"Firearm" means any weapon designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or any device readily convertible to that use;

And

TN Title 39-17-1319(a)(1) states:

"Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which any shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharged, the length of the barrel of which, not including any revolving, detachable, or magazine breech, does not exceed twelve inches (12'')


So based on those definitions I would say that the individual needs a permit to carry, but I am not a lawyer and he should consult one if he needs legal advice.

 

[MADDOG]

I read an article a while back that said over the road truckers were carrying BP pistols. I've looked but can't find it again.

 

[buck460XVR]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. I wasn't thinking about the "with intent of going armed" part and how that will fall into play here. Think he might be SOL.

If he is short of cash, feels a need for a SD handgun and only has a BP, I'd suggest selling the BP and using that cash for something like a LCP. They are only $199 NIB at many places nowadays. As finicky as some BP firearms are, especially to moisture, I'd be leery of CWCing a BP regularly.

 

[bullseye308]

Good info guys, thanks. I'll pass it along and see if I can help raise some money to help him get his permit and loan him a gun till he gets back on his feet.