Striker fired 'non commanded discharges' again in the news

Old Dog said:
Case was dismissed.

And as SIG notes:
"This decision marks the 18th frivolous or unsupported P320 unintentional discharge lawsuit dismissed against SIG SAUER."
Click to expand...

Yeah that is what happens when a plaintiff withdraws their complaint after reaching an out of court settlement. The plaintiff has to go to the court and ask for it to be dismissed. It was not dismissed because the court reached a conclusion.
 
9mmepiphany said:
I know, it is so rare that folks will see the evidence and acknowledge responsibility for their actions as opposed to blaming a tool

Maybe their sense of responsibility overcame their greed or denial of making a mistake
Click to expand...

Or Sig offered this guy a brown paper bag full of dead presidents to just go away.

I had a co worker that was suing a company because one of their tools blew up in his hand while operating it.
After about 2 yrs, the case was dropped and his claims against the company reversed.
1.5 ish million dollars sure changes a person's tune.
 
sevt_chevelle said:
After about 2 yrs, the case was dropped and his claims against the company reversed.
1.5 ish million dollars sure changes a person's tune.
Click to expand...
That is just the way civil litigation is set up to work.

Companies balance the cost of settling verses going to trial...not much different from plea bargaining in criminal cases; except the coin in those cases is time.

As a lawyer representing me in a personal injury case involving a traffic accident once said in during their Closing, "The Plaintive wants to win the Lottery and you can't win without buying a ticket. Filing this case, where he had nothing to stand on, was buying his lottery ticket"

It was the second case the lawyer for the plaintive had represented the losing side against me. After the trial, he walked up to congratulate me. I looked at him, smiled, held up two fingers and said, "2-0"
 
I don't trust the courts any further than I can spit, ESPECIALLY the judges! I won't be swayed either way by a court ruling. Although I still have some serious questions about Sig, we still haven't seen that overwhelming proof of the uncommanded discharge being recreated. It may just be that the Sig P320 design is more prone to negligent discharges than many other pistol designs.

Note that the P365 XMacro/Fuse trigger guard width was widened by 36.4%. Manufacturers tend to make changes only when they need to. It's possible that a product liability lawyer has been pounding it into Sig's heads that they need to pay more attention to product safety and product liability. Some of the safety modifications that Sig made to the P320 have been incorporated into the P365 series.

I've performed UL safety testing on electronics. If the company that I worked for was as lax on safety testing as Sig has been, they would have gone BANKRUPT!
 
someguy2800 said:
Ruh row

youtu.be

Testing two P320's for Uncommanded Discharge: One PASS, one FAIL

Demonstrating a repeatable methodology for testing Sig P320's for the potential of "Uncommanded Discharges".A good explanation of a few of the concepts invol...
youtu.be youtu.be
Click to expand...

I get we have people who want to take down firearms companies and any 2A advocate should quell strictly made up claims or coverups of personal negligence. But, I’m not dying on this hill of Sigs poor engineering. At this point Sigs has some serious problems on their horizon with a potential lawsuit from the US military, police forces as it relates to contracts not just discharges in the courts.

Sig questionable responses to the public from the beginning when they had to redesign the drop safety aspect.

The P320’s design is very suspect and has been from the beginning when they shoehorned a striker into a hammer design.
 
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Finally there's a little insight into what might be part of the issue. Still does't answer all my questions, but at least it's proof of one clue and this might be a way to tell if your P320 may be prone to failure.

youtu.be

Testing two P320's for Uncommanded Discharge: One PASS, one FAIL

Demonstrating a repeatable methodology for testing Sig P320's for the potential of "Uncommanded Discharges".A good explanation of a few of the concepts invol...
youtu.be youtu.be
 
I don’t own a P320
.. I probably will never own a P320 …
To many better designed pistols at or below the P320 price point .. I’m not a gun designer or engineer.. but being I owned several P250’s in the past ( which were solid pistols) it looked as if SIG took a P250 and cobbled it up turning it into a striker fired pistol when converted the P250 into a P320 … unnecessary high bore axis , lack of trigger safety
This pistol shouldn’t have been picked in the military trials …
I think SIG coming out with the press release saying basically the World is lying about the P320 .. was the nail in the coffin.
 
InTheSwamp said:
Well said @BreechFace
The responses are far worse than the design.
Click to expand...

I'll never forget when the P365 came out and they were breaking trigger return springs and firing pins off the striker. A friend of mine had his break so he called SIG customer service and they told him that they hadn't gotten a single return of a broken P365 since launch. At that point there were already at least 10 videos on YouTube of either broken strikers or dead triggers and dozens of forum posts of the same. That told me everything I needed to know about SIG.
 
Hugger-4641 said:
Here's the sequel to the previous video I posted. Getting closer to a possible answer.

youtu.be

P320 Sear Movement Test followup: It's all about the Trigger Bar and Trigger

Video of original Sear Movement Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P14w4jTsHIInstructions for performing the Sear Movement Test on your own P320: https:/...
youtu.be youtu.be
Click to expand...
This video demonstrates that a trigger dingus that rests positively on the frame, would prevent the trigger bar from moving no matter what happens, if the trigger is not pulled.
 
5-SHOTS said:
This video demonstrates that a trigger dingus that rests positively on the frame, would prevent the trigger bar from moving no matter what happens, if the trigger is not pulled.
Click to expand...
The video clearly demonstrates two different actions of the trigger bar when the sear is released for what ever reason. His 320 which has a downward travel of the bar does not release the striker, his friends 320 that has only foward motion does release the striker. On the previous video it was demonstrated that the friends gun would release the striker and firing pin would extend past the face.
 
Hugger-4641 said:
The video clearly demonstrates two different actions of the trigger bar when the sear is released for what ever reason. His 320 which has a downward travel of the bar does not release the striker, his friends 320 that has only foward motion does release the striker. On the previous video it was demonstrated that the friends gun would release the striker and firing pin would extend past the face.
Click to expand...
In both cases the trigger moves, which could have been prevented with a dingus trigger like this one. Now, with this dingus you could push on the P320 sear as much as you want and the trigger would not move. And if the trigger can't move, the trigger bar can't move and the sear can't move.
IMG-20200510-WA0014.jpeg IMG-20200510-WA0022.jpeg IMG-20200510-WA0028.jpeg IMG20200515135446.jpg
 
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Hugger-4641 said:
Here's the sequel to the previous video I posted. Getting closer to a possible answer.

youtu.be

P320 Sear Movement Test followup: It's all about the Trigger Bar and Trigger

Video of original Sear Movement Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P14w4jTsHIInstructions for performing the Sear Movement Test on your own P320: https:/...
youtu.be youtu.be
Click to expand...
What seriously concerns me is that in the P320 design moving the sear moves the trigger linkage bar at all!!! This seems like a very problematic design. Someone please correct me if I misunderstood that video or the operation of the P320 sear.

In the P365 design, moving the sear downward and away from the striker lug moves the lever arm of the sear FURTHER away from the trigger linkage bar and also further away from the striker safety lever. When the trigger is at rest, there is NO contact between the sear's lever arm and the trigger linkage bar or the striker safety lever.
 
Any Cliff Notes, or maybe some key sections to watch? Just short of 2 hours is a bit much for me too. More often than not, it ends up being 2 hours you never get back, especially when youre getting to be short as it is. . :)
 
Ethan Verity said:
Pretty good deep dive video on this which I stumbled upon today; it's worth the full watch.
Click to expand...

Check out these two timestamps which seem to be the most relevant: 57:47 and 1:17:47. What this video and the "P320 Sear Movement Test followup: It's all about the Trigger Bar and Trigger" video suggest to me is that there are some design issues. It also suggests to me that there may need to be multiple failures for an uncommanded discharge to occur. But they are still no more than a smoking gun until someone actually recreates the claimed uncommanded discharge.

Whether or not these discharges in question were actually uncommanded, both the P320 striker and P320 trigger designs seem problematic to me, and as such I will not own one.

I would like to add a 10 mm pistol to my arsenal. However the P320 10 mm version will not be it. I don't know if is possible to use a P365 FCU for a 10 mm pistol, but if Sig made a P365 "style" FCU to use in a 10 mm pistol I would seriously consider buying it.
 
Chicago PD just abandoned the P320.

Not that I shot my Sig M17 P320 much, as I bought it to have one due to military acceptance. But it’s going to remain unloaded. Maybe I’ll get my money back when a class action happens with all of this and return it to Sig. I have no desire to own or shoot it.

If Glock was a publicly traded company, now would be the time to invest, I’ll just leave it at that.
 
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