Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Student at UVU harassed for open carry video

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by mljdeckard, Mar 8, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    12,763
    Location:
    In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
    There was a story tonight on our local Fox affiliate , a student at Utah Valley University was confronted by campus police for open-carrying on campus. They haven't posted the story on the website yet, but the long and short of it is; he was posting material as president of the campus republican chapter, someone called the campus police for MWAG, they responded. As the conversation became prolonged, he pulled out his iphone and started filming. The news team confirmed with BCI, the student was well within his rights and the state college has no latitude to make gun laws, the state has pre-emption. The police kept trying to insist that the law doesn't ALLOW students to open carry, but the truth is, it doesn't PROHIBIT it. I attended this campus a long time ago, and I had some VERY silly conversations with the campus cops and their notions of what is and is not legal. This isn't even a NEW law and they don't know what it is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaQJs8eoMk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzyYu9dhIY0

    This will force clarification to campus cops in their interpretation of the law, but I still don't want to be one of the cases that they learn from.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  2. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    12,763
    Location:
    In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
    Fox 13 didn't post it, but the local NBC affiliate did.

    The 'flaw' referred to is the distinction between 'displaying' and 'brandishing'. The legislative fix is currently on the governor's desk.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9943882
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  3. ilikepancakes

    ilikepancakes Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    145
    Ahaha! The anti's name is Gunn!
     
  4. cleardiddion

    cleardiddion Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,353
    Location:
    US
    I think the kid did good.
    If I had a friend/kid like that I'd be damned proud of him.
     
  5. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    Rights/legalities aside the cop made me lol when he called the kid out by saying if you're really buddies with Shurtleff go ahead and have him give me a call.

    Two thoughts I think open carry in places like a college campus is likely to alarm people and does more potential harm by giving people a reason to advocate changing the law than it does good by winning people over.

    The flip side is that if you don't use the right, i.e. no one can every open carry at a university to avoid ruffling feathers then that is largely the functional equivalent of having the law changed anyways so what is lost.

    Lawsuit? I'm guessing the UVU kid doesn't really want to deal with all the headaches of that.

    The U of U already lost a lawsuit trying to enforce school policy in violation of state law. I do think this issue should be pressed to a positive resolution.
     
  6. esquare

    esquare Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    305
    The student needs to petition the Utah AG for clarification (along with this video and a written description of the event) - and that will be the end of this type of stuff for UVU. He also needs to get more fiends to open carry as well. Good luck with it - it's the people like this that change the world.
     
  7. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,806
    unreal.

    The guy did very well... im not so sure if i would have gotten away without being charged. Mall cops acting like god. Unreal.

    JOe
     
  8. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    While I completely support his right to open carry, and realize that he was well within the law, I would simply ask this:

    Why? To make a point?

    If you're carrying to protect yourself, you clearly have a tactical advantage if you're carrying concealed. As well as it being the more considerate option.

    Let's face it. Some people are just freaked out if they see a gun.

    It's ignorance. It's silly. Nevertheless, it IS.

    Why would you even want to deal with all of that hassle? Conceal and you get what you want with no problems. Open carry and deal with the cops every 15 minutes. I just don't see the logic in it regardless of how right he is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
  9. esquare

    esquare Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    305
    Yep, that's the point of the OC movement. Hey, if people like this don't stand up and do this, the public will never understand that firearms aren't the cause of crime. I mean, if people don't see guns in common use by law abiding citizens, how are they going to get educated about them?
     
  10. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    The Brady Campaign says the same thing about concealed carry. I'm glad that you think I am ignorant and silly - that is why I have spent 26 years in military service, to protect your right to come out in public and proclaim how ignorant and silly I am for upholding my oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC. One small way that I fulfill that oath every day is by open carrying.

    I don't get what I want when I conceal my gun. I don't get deterrence. A concealed firearm is for defense against an attack after that attack has begun. An openly carried firearm is for deterring that attack from beginning.

    Are the anti's considerate of our rights to protect ourselves? Why should I give up the deterrent value of my openly carried firearm to be considerate of their unfounded fears? If they don't like the sight of my gun, then let them go somewhere else - there is nothing inconsiderate about that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  11. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,806
    That is only YOUR opinion. IMO open carry is not a disadvantage, some see a gun and think "I'll wait until he leaves" or "not hitting this place"... there is a recent news story where the BG's were waiting untill an OC left before they robbed the place, their scout told them a man with a gun was inside and while waiting the cops saw the car suspiciously waiting.

    IMO the public needs to see that a person with a gun doesn't mean CHAOS....

    you can have your opinion, and we can have ours... just don't think your better than anyone else because of it.

    JOe
     
  12. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,806
    http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atla...8-Open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-in-Kennesaw
     
  13. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    NavyLT,

    Whoa, there.......you are taking what I said completely wrong. What I meant was that the fearful attitude towards firearms is ignorant and silly, nevertheless, it is something that we are forced to deal with every day.

    As far as the rest of what you said, all very valid points that I had not considered.
     
  14. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Wow........ talk about starting a firestorm.

    Okay, my apologies. Didn't mean to step on any toes. I certainly don't think I'm better than ANYONE, certainly not anybody in here. Open carry is not an option where I live, and even if it were, given my line of work, I would be causing myself more trouble than it's worth to engage in the practice.

    I had forgotten that Kennesaw story, and that certainly makes the more valid argument.
     
  15. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    I couldn't agree more.


    Not sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate?
     
  16. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,806
    i apologize if i came off like a jerk. Not intended..

    It just sounded similar to when my hunting buddy's saw no need for people owning AR style rifles. It just irked me that they had the right of mind to decide what people could have or even had to justify a reason to owning one.
     
  17. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    Kingofthehill,

    No problem. I appreciate that.
     
  18. silhouette004

    silhouette004 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    if you don't mind my asking, what is your line of work, which would make open carry such a hassle? (not trying to be combative, just genuinely curious)
     
  19. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    For what it's worth, I get into more arguments about RKBA than anything else I know of. I carry 24/7 and think that EVERYONE should. For me, it's about FAR more than just guns. It's about the definition of true liberty and freedom. It's about the historical aspect of just what has happened to disarmed societies. It's about the fact that the founding fathers thought that the RKBA was second ONLY to freedom of speech.

    If nothing else, this discussion has put open carry in a light that I hadn't considered previously.
     
  20. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    I am a musician. I have my own business (recording studio) and I play keyboards in a show.
     
  21. Big Boy

    Big Boy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    Missouri
    I open carry, and have never been hassled. The thing that originally pushed me to do it is that you can't get a CCW in MO till 23, but can start open carrying at 18 if gifted the handgun. I got to buy my first handgun when I turned 21 and like I said, Open Carry was my only option.

    Now I would OC or CC without any problem. For me it all depends on what is more comfortable with my clothing. (ie. if I have a coat on, it's concealed on my hip, and there's no point for me to try and tuck my coat behind my gun.) However if I were open carrying and were hassled, I would do the same as the kid. Stand for my right until they attempt to use other laws like disorderly conduct to arrest you. I don't have the time or the money to deal with the court system.
     
  22. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,654
    Location:
    Morgan County, Alabama

    NOT ME! NOOOO relationship!! I'm Innocent! It ain't me I say! :eek:

    :eek:
     
  23. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    CaptainMarko,

    Glad to hear you weren't calling us open carriers ignorant and silly! :D Sorry I was a bit over-defensive and took it that way. Glad we could shed some more light as to why we choose to open carry, and glad that you are open-minded enough to see merit in those reasons!
     
  24. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    I'd like to see an OC rally happen there. I watched one of the local news reports and it was rather positive pointing out that multiple official agencies in charge of the matter say the young man is within his rights.

    The school and the school's police force need to be made to follow the law.
     
  25. captainmarko

    captainmarko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    That is kind of where I was originally headed with all of this. It seems to me, that when you are standing around, debating the law with an LEO who is not on your side, you've already lost. Your chances of changing their mind are zero when the they've already decided that you're in the wrong, you just don't know it yet.

    The kid was smart to record the whole encounter.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page