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Sub-machine gun for home defense?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Sry0fcr, Dec 29, 2005.

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  1. Sry0fcr

    Sry0fcr Member

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    Viable option or no? Well maybe not a selectfire weapon but a semi-auto pistol caliber carbine .
     
  2. jobu07

    jobu07 Member

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    That's a big no go... Even if they were more affordable.
     
  3. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    No practicable value to speak of - let alone rate of fire even in burst mode, making for little control over wall penetration issues and so rule #4.

    One hit is worth more than 10 misses anyways and skilled use of most semi's will be way more effective than FA. We are talking HD here, not warfare!:)

    Not forgetting, even if FA legally owned - the legal repurcussions - <ouch>.
     
  4. Sry0fcr

    Sry0fcr Member

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    Care to elaborate why?
     
  5. Sry0fcr

    Sry0fcr Member

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    Oops!

    Maybe I shouldn't have said SMG... Edited original post for clarity.
     
  6. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    If you are going to use a long gun for home defense, you'll almost certainly be more effective with a shotgun.
     
  7. mete

    mete Member

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    I think it was Jeff Cooper who said 'The SMG is the biggest builder of false self confidence there is.' Only good hits count so use a pistol of semiauto carbine.
     
  8. V4Vendetta

    V4Vendetta member

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    Let's say you had one hypotheticly. Let's also say that you used it in self-defense sucessfully. Now here come the media saying that since you had a SMG, you are a person just itching to kill someone. Now a prosecutor wanting to make a big name for himself, has you arrested. Now you are on trial for murder. Now since the media has tainted the jury pool, you are found guilty of murder. You spend the rest of your life in prison. Unless you have the blue prints tattooed on your body & are a genius.:D
     
  9. jobu07

    jobu07 Member

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    Now that you've editted the original question, my answer changes! :p

    A strictly semi-auto pistol caliber carbine is perfectly fine for home defense in my book. Legal reprecussions are the main, and just about only consideration with your original topic.
     
  10. Sry0fcr

    Sry0fcr Member

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    I live in Texas, I'd probably only have to make a report. ;)
     
  11. kage genin

    kage genin Member

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    my 2 cents...
    If you're going to use pistol rounds for home defense, better to shoot it out of something you can shoulder.
     
  12. kjeff50cal

    kjeff50cal Member

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    Only if you are in Israel..... And a semi-auto version is only good for the initial shock value (oh :cuss: , he/she has a machinegun) then you have to fire, cover and move (if there is more than one BG) with what amounts to a big heavy awkward pistol with a 30 round magazine limiting how low (John Woo firing position nowithstanding) you can get. You can get 'normal sized' duty pistols that has enough magazine capacity to equal a Mac-10/Uzi clone that will fit into a concealment holster.
    A carbine style full-auto is like P95Carry said, but a semi-auto like the Baretta Storm or the Ruger/Marlin pistol carbines are a good option if you use the right ammunition ie HP or frangable(expensive).

    Edited because of revision of original question.

    kjeff50cal
     
  13. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Member

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    Even if U are ok legally, U will not have a fun time at the civil suit when the family of the guy you shot sues you.
     
  14. Sheldon J

    Sheldon J Member

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    Way too much collateral dammage

    TV, china, pets, kids, you know stuff you kind of want to keep.
     
  15. bratch

    bratch Member

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    There was a long discussion on this not too long ago with all the reasoning. Run a search and you should find it.
     
  16. DMK

    DMK Member

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    A pistol caliber long gun can certainly be fired more accurately than a pistol, especially at distance. That's pretty much your only real advantage. Velocity increases are generally small with the longer barrels and commercial ammo.

    A pistol is much more compact and easier to manuever in the tight confines of your home. Weapon retention is also an issue with a long gun in close quarters.

    If I need a long gun, I prefer a rifle caliber or shotgun depending on the circumstance.
     
  17. CAS700850

    CAS700850 Member

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    As a prosecutor who has reviewed shootings, I can say that in the criminal arena, the facts of the case matter more than the gun. If the shooting is clean, so long as the gun is legal you'll be fine. At least in this jurisdiction.

    The same cannot be said in the civil arena, where a slimy Personal Injury lawyer will go to great lengths to paint his client as the poor victim of society, breaking into a home to support the drug habit caused by his poor upbringing, while you, Mr. Rambo-wanna-be, laid in ambush with a machinegun in your hand and death in your eyes. Only good fortune kept the poor client alive, not you, a man for whom a handgun or a shotgun just was not deadly enough.

    Of course, I wonder how some of the carbines might work out, like the Beretta Storm, or the old Marlin Camp Carbine, which don't have that "assault weapon" look to them. A pistol caliber lever action rifle might even make you look good to a jury, since it's just an old fashioned gun like Roy Rogers and Gene Autry used to use.
     
  18. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    A gun actually used in a self defense situation may end up
    tagged bagged and in an evidence locker for years, and
    may be never returned. I would not use a nonreplacable
    gun like a collectors item or heirloom, but a good gun with
    no high investment.
     
  19. ball3006

    ball3006 Member

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    SWMBO is going to....

    be really pi**ed when you shoot all those holes in the walls...........shoot em with #2 goose loads, non plated, with a shotgun. Emergency room docs love to practice taking stuff out of bad guys that have been shot.........chris3
     
  20. f4t9r

    f4t9r Member

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    Its amazing how many hoops you have to jump if you shoot somebody breaking in your house. It does not make sence.
    So now we know to use a cheap gun that looks real nice and proper just to defend yourself or property.
    Its all so crazy !!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  21. deadly50bmg

    deadly50bmg Member

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    Stick with a 12 Gauge
     
  22. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    so you guys are saying that $300 rossi lever action (win 92 pattern) in .480 Ruger i just bought is a better home defense option than my ARs, USC in .45acp, or wilson 1911?

    interesting.

    as far as staying alive and delivering accurate fire under pressure, i'd always considered my SBR UMP clone to be the perfect option: .45acp, 30 rnd mags, stock, short barrel (no retention issues) and eotech.

    but i would be pretty upset if it spent the next few years in an evidence locker. and it is pretty evil looking.

    i wouldn't lose any sleep if i had to buy another $300 lever gun. it holds 11 rnds, which is more than my 1911. retention is a potential issue, but not overly difficult to resolve. i'll have to think about it.
     
  23. Valkman

    Valkman Member

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    No way I'd use my FA Uzi for HD - I do not want holes everywhere, but more importantly I do not want it seized if I shoot someone with it. I'll use my 1911's and AR first.
     
  24. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    The point about a collector gun is a good one, and should be given some thought both in home defense and in a carry situation.

    IF you shoot someone, regardless of the situation, you might have to drop the gun on the street. In any case, the gun will almost certainly be seized by the police as evidence. Police are not noted for giving the best care to evidence guns. I have seen valuable shotguns kicked around the concrete floor in the evidence room, and handguns knocked of shelves.

    Sometime back, on a thread about self defense, I mentioned that even if the shooter believed that he had no other choice, the police will almost certainly make an arrest and that the shooter should put down his gun, not merely holster it. One person replied that there was no way he drop his superdooper $2500 custom engraved gold plated handgun, or even lay it on the ground. I replied that he would have a choice - with cops around him with drawn guns, he could drop his gun or they would drop him. His reply was that he would rather be killed than to have his gun scratched and that he would shoot the cops if they tried to take his precious gun or so much as scratched it. How do you spell "lunatic"?

    Jim
     
  25. ParChaser

    ParChaser Member

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    IMO If you need 30 rounds from a SMG you are more likely to just point in the general direction and just pull the trigger and not worry about surroundings or what is behind the target in question. The point, pray and spray mentality and are more likely to hurt an innocent loved one or neighbor than the potential attacker.

    My Choice for perfect home defense and personal protection firearms would be a handgun with a minimum caliber of .40 for knockdown, penatration and noise factor, so even if you miss the sound scares the crap out of the intruder. 2nd choice and Ideally for those who may have less training, confidence and may not be a good shot I recommend a short barreled (18 1/2 ") 20 or 12 gauge with pistol grip or collapsible stock with home defense loads. 6-10 pellets no slugs and you want a moderate to tight choke pattern as well so it is sending a burst pattern that covers about 12-14" in my opinoin.

    These are just my opinions and not 100% factual. But I use both of these for home defense and both have nightsights and/or mounted tactical light.

    Remember long guns even in a pistol caliber may have a tendancy to over penetrate. Most open areas in your home are going to be under 25 yards. You might have 1-2 long hall ways or open areas that may give you 35 yards but pistols and shotguns are perfect for these distances and shorter which is what most home shootings would fall into.
     
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