Super Derringer?

[Boom-stick]

Just thought I'd pose this question to people with a greater understanding of BP than me.

I recently saw online a .223 rem derringer
and I was thinking if a BP derringer could be made along the same lines/idea.

Small bullet with a large shouldered powder cavity and 209 primers.

Just not sure how well BP works in a "shouldered environment"?
I mean, would you get the same kind of effect as you do with smokeless or would you be better of with a straight walled design in a .45 or .50 cal?

A set of custom barrels on a American derringer or bond arms frame would work.

Any thoughts are welcome.

(Acutally, thinking about it, I probably should have just PM'd Manyirons)

 

[Manyirons]

Onlyist reason cause black powder AINT progressive burnin fer a shoulder is ta keep length down in yer cartridge, best things a SCREW OFF barrel cause ya gets ta swage that bullet down a bit makin use of the pressure ya gots!

(Hadda ask tha BOSS!)

 

[Steve499]

I would think cleaning might present a problem.

Steve

 

[Boom-stick]

I would think cleaning might present a problem.

Not with a removeable breech plug.

 

[Manyirons]

Actual fact, with either aint no trouble cleanin, screw off er as Boomie asked it original.

 

[Seancass]

i find this question interesting, so i big-bump it.

one would possibly need a set/stop length rod to keep from pushing the ball into an open area where powder could blow by it.

 

[Fast Frank]

"one would possibly need a set/stop length rod to keep from pushing the ball into an open area where powder could blow by it"

NO!

Never ever load black powder with an air space between the bullet/ball and the powder.

This has been shown to explode barrels.

Always make sure that the area behind the bullet/ball is full of powder!

I suppose that a larger chamber might be something fun to experiment with, but restricting the length of your ram rod to prevent pushing the bullet/ball too far into the chamber is a bad idea for sure.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

A powder chamber smaller than the projectile's diameter (like some old "handgonnes" of the middle ages had) gives better performance. I don't think a larger diameter chamber would. In fact, I suspect it would do the opposite and would be wasteful in its use of more powder than is needed, because you must have powder behind the projectile to avoid an exploding barrel. IIRC, larger chambers were tried on some early cannons and didn't work so well...

Blackpowder simply has different properties than modern smokeless, so you need to consider that fact when designing a gun.

 

[Boom-stick]

Seeing as I started this I might as well chime in.

What about a flip barrel (remy derringer), load the wad/ball in the front up to a small retaining lip in the barrel then pour the powder in though the breech end so you know it goes up to the ball. Screw in the breech with nipple attached and away you go?

If you want to experiment with different loads, use a filler?

 

[Plink]

There's only so much slow burning black powder that will burn in a given barrel length. There isn't much different between making a larger powder chamber for it, or just packing more under the ball. Any excess isn't going to contribute much to velocity, just recoil and smoke.