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Suppressor dissassembly

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by bkjeffrey, Mar 4, 2010.

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  1. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    Im looking at building my own suppressor for my AK, (with big daddy's permission). I have two different ideas that are both pretty simple. Both involve a steel shell with stainless steel k baffles. My question is how important is it that the baffles be removable for cleaning on a centerfire rifle? The easier way Im thinking of building it would be having it welded on both ends but that would mean I couldnt remove the baffles. Big deal? 7.62x39 ammo can get pretty dirty. If I couldnt take it down for cleaning I figure a good soaking in some caustic chemicals might help remove some of the carbon buildup every once in a while?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Conventional wisdom seems to be that centerfire suppressors really shouldn't need to be dissassembled for cleaning but rimfire ones probably should be.

    Those ultrasonic cleaning bath devices do a pretty good job from what I've heard. So does soaking the can in Kroil or a solvent of your choice.

    -Sam
     
  3. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    yea, thats what Im thinking too. I guess Im just looking for verification. Im just worried about the dirt surplus Ak ammo out there. And some of its corrossive too.
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    The corrosiveness would be the easy part. Just wash the can well with hot water (maybe heating the can gently in the oven afterwards to make sure all the water evaporated) before oiling and storage. Of course, there's always a risk of not getting all of the salts rinsed out of the nooks and crannies inside a suppressor -- and then having the can rust through after a couple of years. That would suck.

    Hmmm... I could go either way on that. I'd probably go ahead with a sealed can that I was making myself, knowing that I wasn't out a thousand bucks. But I'm kind of picky about cleaning after corrosive ammo so the threaded can might be tempting.

    Why could you not make the whole can stainless? That would ease SOME of the corrosion worries (though not all).

    Curious to see what others would do...

    -Sam
     
  5. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    Cost and ease of matieral procurement. Im actually thinking of using hot dipped galvanized carbon steel from McMaster. The galvanized would resist interior corrosion. I plan on dura coating the exterior so im not worried about that. Its cheap, only problem is its only rated for 150 psi. Theres another item for consideration. How much pressure are we talking about the can being able to contain?
     
  6. Arkady

    Arkady Member

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    The following list was posted on SilencerTalk by johndoe3 about a year ago:

    Sorry, didn't see anything about 7.62x39, but it should give you an idea of the numbers you're looking at.
     
  7. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    It is rare that I see a silencer for a center fire rifle that can be taken apart for cleaning. I make mind from 4130 steel and just rinse with solvent and oil to reduce the corrosion rate inside. I made an AK silencer from 4130 tubing and bar stock left over from scrap. I turned down .095" tubing to reduce weight, but stopped at .050" because I got tired ot watching the lathe. I could have gone down to .035" I think.
    akthreaded-1.jpg
    I made a guide to put threads on the muzzle. It did not work well enough, the threads were about .010" off from center.
    AKmuzzle2.jpg
    So I moved the front sight back. I reamed out the front sight to allow it to slide back and used a file on the barrel to allow the drift pins to go back in. By some miracle the front sight only required a bit of hammering to adjust windage at the range.
    AKsilencer-1.jpg
    Very basic design. Sturdy but requires a very straight rifle bore or increased silencer bore to ensure on baffle strikes. I went with a .400" bore.
    suppressedwasr.gif
    Ugly can for an ugly rifle. It might work well enough. Works like crap with my reloaded subsonic 220 grain bullets so far.

    Ranb
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  8. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I like the "snub nose" AK!
     
  9. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    What do you have to do in order to legally make sound suppressors? Also, how do you guys make them? I mean, what type of machinery do you use and how do you access it? Thanks.
     
  10. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    You should download a "Form 1" from the ATF. That's the form for making a new Title II firearm. (Yes, a can is a firearm -- strange but true.) The ATF's site has all the info you need on the legal steps.

    As far as equipment to manufacture one, I can't imagine it would be easy to do without a metal lathe. Probably would want a TIG (maybe a MIG) welder.

    You'll need some way to engrave it as well, as your name, location, and a serial number will be required.
     
  11. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    If you live in the USA, then you first need to reside in AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MO (with C&R), MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI or WY to own one without a license. WA bans use. A few others states allow licensed dealers to own them also.

    Then you need to obtain the ATF form 1 (application to make and register a firearm), form 5330.20 (certify citizenship), two finger print cards, two passport sized photos of yourself and a check for $200. You can download the forms from here; http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf (duplicate 2-sided) and http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf and finger print cards (and other forms) from here; http://www.atf.gov/forms/dcof/ .

    You are required to obtain the local sheriff's signature on the back of the ATF form 1 before sending it in to the ATF. If the sheriff will not sign, then you can ask a judge or DA to sign. Most people who have problems obtaining the signature create a trust or corporation to own the silencer for them. All qualified corp officers or trustees can possess the silencer, this is an advantage over over personal ownership.

    You then need access to a lathe. It does not have to be a large or good one. I use a cheap chinese hobby lathe that barely holds .001" consistantly. A band saw, drill/bits, and a welder will come in handy also. I ordered one from Grizzly. I use a cheap MIG welder for the high powered rifle silencers. A hand engraver does a good enough job for engraving the silencer. Two of the best forums for silencer hobbists are http://www.subguns.com and http://www.silencertalk.com .

    A sielncer will reduce noise by anywhere from 20-30 decibels which is 100 to 1000 times less intensity and 4 to 8 times less loudness. But doe not expect to have anything that is quiet unless the rifle is already not that loud when not suppressed. Some suppressed rifles and pistols will still be too noisy to safely shoot without ear plugs.

    Ranb
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  12. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    what do you man it works like crap with 200 gr bullets? minimal noise reduction?

    Do you think .4" silencer bore might be letting too much gas by the .3" bullet thereby reducing its effectiveness?
     
  13. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    The rounds will not chamber unless inserted into the chamber by hand. They lack the power to cycle the action. Accuracy sucks. This is just preliminary results though. I have heard that 200 grain EBR ammo works well, but there is no way I will ever pay for that expensive stuff.

    A large bore is going to let out too much noise. But a quiet gun that can't hit anything due to baffles strikes is just a loud club. And that would suck even more. :)

    Ranb
     
  14. PTK

    PTK Member

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    No one seems to have mentioned it... please do not use anything zinc in a silencer. Zinc fumes are incredibly bad for you.
     
  15. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    Just re-read that........gotcha.
     
  16. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    so as far as baffles go Im looking at three options:

    any one will be in a tube with welded ends so Ill only have one shot at getting it right.

    a: monolithic baffle like this

    monolithicbaffle.gif

    OR,

    b: stacked "k" baffles like these

    stackedkbaffles.gif

    OR,

    c: a stamped and formed baffle like this MP5SD baffle

    mp5sdinternal.gif

    All three would be pretty easy to make. I just wanna get the most effectiveness. This suppressor will be permanatley attached to a draco AK pistol to give a total bbl length of 16.5 inches so Im looking at making the suppressor 7-8 inches long and just shy of 2" in OD.

    Thoughts?
     
  17. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    No thoughts on any of these baffle designes?...
     
  18. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    The monolithic is easy to make?
     
  19. PTK

    PTK Member

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    None of the three. You should make a stepped cone baffle set for an AK silencer.
     
  20. bkjeffrey

    bkjeffrey Member

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    Sure, Ive got a mini Bridgeport mill.

    Please elaborate.....
     
  21. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Buy Al(an) Paulson's books on silencers, check out the smithing section of http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/index.php, etc.

    I have no pictures handy, and we both know you know about ST. Monolithic baffle picture... ;)
     
  22. Riss

    Riss Member

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    Made 2 of my own design. Both with K baffles. Similar to the AK above for attachment, or like Dr Daters Mk-9 ? suppressor. I would go with a monolith design if I made another. With that type you could easily make a second monolith for another caliber or even adapters for the rear end to accept multiple threading diameters.
     
  23. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    While the ATF does not yet require a $200 tax for additional adaptors for attaching a silencer, they certainly do for any additional internals. This is the downside to making a silencer on a form 1 instead of obtaining a license.

    My next few builds will be with step baffles. A 5.56 can and one for 22lr.

    Ranb
     
  24. Riss

    Riss Member

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    The end cap I would make similar to the Coastal Guns MIMS. Well I guess they would have to define additional internals too. Mine was registered under several different calibers similar to why or how some MG's need to be registered will the caliber listed on the form.
     
  25. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Wow...there's something I never considered! Would there be a significant reason to list anything other than the actual bore of the suppressor? Or the largest caliber intended to be used? (Considering that a .308" suppressor probably is built with a bore of more like .330" or some such?)

    Certainly a larger can can be used on a smaller-bore gun with acceptable results, but does the BATFE actually care?
     
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