Quantcast

Surplus rifles

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Antihero, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,871
    Location:
    Limerick, maine
    I have been debating selling off the whole surplus collection u have minus the m1 garand. I have not shot them in 5 years ans the prices are 2-4 times more then what i have into them. I need the safe space and could use the cash building a shooting range.
     
  2. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,694
    Location:
    GA
    Depending on what you have, you might be selling at the top of the market as price appreciation flattened out except for rare collector pieces or U.S. arms.
     
  3. MosinT53Hunter

    MosinT53Hunter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Messages:
    536
    Or Lugers.
     
  4. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,871
    Location:
    Limerick, maine
    Boom boom, some of the bigger ones are, a Enfield no4 mark1, pristine, like unissued. The rest are very good shape. french made 1981 mosin, m38 mosin, 91/30 mosin, M1 garand, KAR98, beat up carcano, (not sure of the modal but the caliber is 7.35)
     
  5. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    Orlando Fl
    One of the greatest gifts that a gun show can provide is to see something on a table that you never knew about because you were to ignorant.. Then you can research it, maybe find it later cheaper :) .. Maybe not :( .. And then, what the hell maybe even walk out with a fine fire arm ..
     
    BigBore44 likes this.
  6. Whiterook808

    Whiterook808 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Messages:
    518
    Location:
    21.3069° N, 157.8583° W
    If I was smart I would sell all my milsurps now, but I am not done playing with them. I hope my 3 year old grandson will want them, but that is far from guaranteed.
     
  7. lionking

    lionking Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,685
    Well that depends on how you look at it. Depends what kind of surplus also. Get away from the term "surplus" and think about the potential accuracy, the fun factor, the collectible factor and what not. Take a look at the surplus rifle challenge pinned up top, based so far on entries the Mosin Finnish M39 is capable of nice accuracy with tiny blade and notch sights. Accuracy that many current commercial rifles won't achieve with a scope. Add finding a nice excellent condition surplus rifle and paying $600 or more to me, doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Right now the AR-15 type rifle is at it's most popular time than it has ever been, there may come a time when they dry up due to legislation, will those now buying them for $350.00 to $600.00 say later "are you crazy?" when the average cost is $2000 . Dried up surplus market, banned guns no longer available or too costly, what will be the reasonable priced choices then a commercial bolt or lever action?
     
  8. lionking

    lionking Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,685
    Which ones?, and after how many shots? Hunting rifles aren't really designed to blow 40, 50... 60 rounds through it in a hour or two in a fun range target session.
     
  9. lionking

    lionking Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,685
    With the Mosin, seems to me the only reason supply stopped is the current political climate with Russia, once sanctions are lifted and they will be one day, they will come over again. And there are Mosin's all over the world, never know where another batch from somewhere might be available. Unfortunately future Mauser surplus might be more bleak.
     
  10. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Central MN
    Well there is current pricing, and then there is trying to get current pricing if you sell. I've (admittedly somewhat casually) tried to sell 2 this year, walked them around a gunshow at an asking price that was a slight savings on "current value" based on tables at the show and gunbroker, etc, and willing to go somewhat lower to a legit bargain if I got a biter. Got a lot of interest, but no sales. Lots of trade offers, but nothing I was into.
     
  11. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    Somewhere in Maryland
    As others have noted, it's a matter of supply and demand. In the 1990s through about 2005, a vast quantity of milsurp rifles came out of Second World War stocks - especially those held by former Warsaw Pact nations. The Soviets were real pack-rats when it came to weapons, they threw away nothing. Today...those stocks are exhausted. The only major reserves left are in Russia itself, and some pistols that can't be imported due to the ATF points system.
     
  12. Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Florence Alabama
    That inuit gal on Life Below Zero shoots a Mosin Nagant and makes some impressive long range open sight shots. It may be just me but as soon as the show came out the price of a Mosin Nagant started going up.
     
  13. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    Oklahoma, out in the red dirt.
    She is using a 28/30, IIRC.
    Her husband is on this board - can't remember his handle.
     
  14. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    3,277
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    The Wanenmacher is this weekend in Tulsa. If you’ve never been, and you really like firearms, it’s worth the cost of admission. There are good deals there. But booth space is expensive. Saturday is the best day to find what you want. Sunday is the best day for deals.
     
    Bfh_auto likes this.
  15. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    6,597
    Location:
    Virginia
    Having some milsurps is a good way of hedging your bets in the event of upcoming legislation. They are likely to be banned later than semiautomatics. Heck, having a few muzzleloaders is a good idea for the same reason. The key is to diversify so that you are not completely disarmed.

    Remember, all these things were quite deadly in their time, and they still are.
     
    Ratshooter and Steel Horse Rider like this.
  16. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Messages:
    2,751
    I was planning on going, but got called out of town for the weekend. It's really a fun show. People are respectful and it takes a full day to get through.
     
  17. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,694
    Location:
    GA
    Keep the pristine types or oddball types as these will continue to get rarer and sought after by collectors. Assuming no major recession/depression which dumps a lot of supply on the market and depresses prices, the Enfield should continue to go up in value and probably the French built Challerault Mosin should appreciate nicely, assuming it has not been Finn'd, scrubbed, or molested, as these are a pretty rare pre-98 Mosin pre-Russian variant (People pay more for the antiques, all things being equal, because these are "unpapered" by federal law often even in less than pristine condition).

    Regular Mosins including carbines, a Garand, Carcanos especially the 7.35 probably will not see much appreciation unless they happen to be an unusual variant or a brand name. Rifles that fire odd rounds such as the 7.35 which is a true .30 are difficult to find ammo for and to reload and generally these bring less and appreciate less. Mosins also are pretty common as are generic mixmaster Garands.

    For example, a Winchester Garand in the same condition as a Springfield Armory will generally bring more because "Winchester", an Intl Harvester Garand will also bring more as a semi-rare variant. That is also true for the Garand gas trap variants and then you start getting into the weeds on collecting. Anything that has been sportered is usually worth much less but there are exceptions such as a "name" company or gunsmith made sporter. The Kar98, depending on markings and maker, might go either way but right now WWI arms due to things like the recent documentary on WWI along with a few new WWI movies and that it has hit the century mark, probably has the generic WWI arms near a crest in prices. At different times, Civil War era, the Cowboy Shooting craze, Westerns, Dirty Harry (44 magnum) etc. have produced spikes in the market that recede over time except for the truly collectibles which exhibit scarcity and condition. A shooter grade WWI Kar98 is somewhat scarce but much less well known than the later WWII era k98. At one time the Kar98 was valued for conversion to sporters due to handling characteristics and work needed compared with the GEW 98. Those days are gone and it is niche collecting item for WWI collectors, the shooter grade ones that I have seen bring about the same as GEW 98's

    Summary, If your firearm is a scarce variant (including proven ownership by a famous person), it will appreciate, if it exhibits excellent pristine condition, it will appreciate over time, if the firearm is both scarce and in pristine condition, these will appreciate the most.
     
    Slamfire likes this.
  18. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,581
    Location:
    In the Wild Horse Desert of Texas
    I've been buying a lot of Bubba's rejects for pocket change. It's cheaper to buy a chopped-up Mauser with a bunch of good, usable parts than it is to buy any one of those parts on the retail market... .
     
  19. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,871
    Location:
    Limerick, maine
    Ya, I understand that. And nothing i have is sporterized. I would never own one of those unless the price was price. the garand is the only "shooter" grade i have, It was a gift from the wife and i can not sell it. the KAR 98 is not "Pristine" but have a clean bore and great blueing, stock has some dings on it. I used it hunting when i turned 18. but all the other are in pristine.
     
    boom boom likes this.
  20. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,694
    Location:
    GA
    Not sure how far you are to Kittery's Trading Post but they might be able to give you some figures on how much they would pay or either sell on consignment for you. They sell also on the internet so might be able to give you a more national price than a regional one. It is less today because of the internet but in the past, certain regions valued particular firearms greater than other areas.
     
  21. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,871
    Location:
    Limerick, maine
    I am only about an hour from kittery trading post, have not had good luck from them, and will most likely not spend a dime from them after being a loyal customer for 15 years.

    There is a cabelas also, but i dont normally go there. Too many tactacoool people there.
     
    czhen likes this.
  22. Antihero

    Antihero Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    I own one bubba, a 308 Enfield. I bought it for a but more than I wanted ($109 at the time lol) but the shop gauranteed it would work or it was free. It didn't feed well, I still haven't tracked down why actually.

    Took it back, his gunsmith couldn't fix it so he offered me a deal : $109 in cash back or double store credit. I got a p3at and he gave me the Enfield too
     
    Robbins290 likes this.
  23. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,694
    Location:
    GA
    Cabelas will be buy low and sell high in my experience. Sorry about Kittery's. I bought something from them years ago and was treated ok. Joe Salter, Checkpoint Charlie, Simpsons Ltd. are firms that have been around and deal with military surplus firearms which are reputable and then there are the auction house folks such as Rock Island etc. for the really pricey stuff. There is also a place in Mass that I never have dealt with but advertises in the Gun Digest--Pack and Postal which apparently has a new website, https://www.packandpostalcenter.com/about.html#/, and they do buy from individual collections. Don't know how they treat sellers but they have been in business for awhile for better or worse and do not appear to have outrageous prices for buyers.
     
    Robbins290 likes this.
  24. fpgt72

    fpgt72 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,326
    I don't think I agree with that statement in any way shape or form...

    do you really think that nothing will increase in price but those "rare" whatever that is american are the only things that are going to go up?

    Personally I think you are going to see the same kind of increases we have seen in the past....The items we generally think of as "lower" end are going to see the most growth.....things like SKS, and still Mosins, being the fastest movers. I think things like those "special" M1 Carbines, Un-quality, and the juke box people....those are going to be moving slower, however the more "common" marks those will be faster movers...up to the point where they get so close to the "special" marks people start to say well why not just get that Rockola.

    Things like Johnsons and the like, I don't see them moving much....as well as things like G41 M or W, or G43 being the more common.....they are kinda where they have been for a few years, same with SVT 38 and 40, prices on those have held pretty steady without real big jumps....look back 5-ish years for a mauser G41, and again to today and the price really has not moved much from inflation. I don't think anyone would disagree that the lowly 91/30 have out stripped inflation.

    Now all this goes out the window if something "strange or unique" happens....happened a few years ago with the WWI 100 year birthday...prices on WWI stuff really shot up, I also think we are one hit movie away from seeing large movement in the market as everyone will want the next S&W Model 29.
     
  25. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,694
    Location:
    GA
    Inflation to some degree will increase prices but given that the OP wants to use the cash to build something now, price increases in common milsurps rifles will show the least appreciation--due to supply and demand. American service arms bring more and appreciate more probably due to those with military service and cultural factors. For some reason, not mine, WWII era Nazi stuff brings in bucks above and beyond the design. Personally, I think Czech's made better Mausers but the Czech Brno's will not bring the price that a Nazi marked Mauser will. You do not see near that interest in wwi era German rifles, Carcanos, Swede Mausers, Norwegian Krags, Arisakas, etc. and interest turns into prices. The Enfields were so ubiquitous that it probably limits interest as well due to familiarity. A lot of folks have at least one but fewer seriously collect them than Mausers or Lugers.

    The Semi-Auto wwii or wwi stuff including handguns with the exception of U.S. carbines or Garands, I don't really pay attention to on market prices so you have better info than me. Nor do I pay attention to the semi-auto conversions of full auto weapons. A complicating factor is that new firearms laws in some states can actually limit the market for them due to mag limits, etc. However, the o/p did not list those as the ones he proposed to sell.

    Ordinary Garands have a limiting factor on upward movement which is the CMP currently but when the CMP runs out, prices may jump. That is what happened to k98's when the Russian capture rifles were all sold. Original military carbines are reflecting supply and demand with only serious collectors interested in the less common makes now because of price. People that buy a Rockola aren't buying them for shooting but collecting. But then again, once you get to $1000 or more for a decent original M1 to shoot--the Universals, etc. plus the new look alikes will exhibit a downward pressure on how much ordinary carbines can go up in price. People that want to shoot a carbine are going to figure in $200 or more differential in price between replicas and originals as they do in Cowboy Shooting etc. When the gap gets large enough, you buy the replica if you want to shoot them. Once the shooters drop out of the market for an original, only collectors are left and most of them already have the common ones. Thus, prices stabilize over time--e.g. market equilibrium.

    The same thing happened at the low end as new rifles are cheaper and more accurate than milsurps, the hunters drop out of the market for milsurps--if you notice, the price of even a fairly nice D&T'd sporterized milsurp is about what a new Axis/TC Center/or a Ruger American bring about $250-400. The remaining untouched shooter grade or very common bolt action type milsurps are going for about $350-600 now which is why folks just now paying attention after the last decade are now shocked that they can't buy one from J&G Sales for $100-200. The original poster pretty much indicated that he viewed the Mosin as a $200-250 rifle at best so he sure is not going to pay a lot more for one and he is not alone. Thus, in the last two-three years, the prices on shootable condition rifles has stabilized until something changes to roughly $400-600 range. Pristine as issued examples or odd variants bring a bit more due to collectors.

    You get ordinary Garands up to $1400-1500, someone is going to make a replica of it probably using a cast receiver (like I believe Springfield Armory (pvt. company) did for a brief while) which tends to stall upward movement of prices as does the price and availability of ammo to shoot them.

    The only reason that I pay attention to the prices is that I rebuild/restore old milsurps and I keep up with prices to decide whether or not do actually undertake one including the value of their parts necessary to restore. Ultimately, the ugly rifles are only worth the sum of their parts or their value in shooting except possibly to a starting collector.
     
    Slamfire likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice