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Surplus rifles

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Antihero, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    My 91/30 is pretty accurate, not sub MOA or anything but it's pretty accurate for crude iron sights. I could hunt with it if I wanted to drag along such a long rifle
     
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  2. lionking

    lionking Member

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    I won't even post a Finnish M39 Mosin just run of the mill Russian ones I have. 1 MOA? no but hardly barn size groups in a 5 shot group, a 10 shot group is bigger but what gun isn't doing 10 shots except maybe a AR-15 or specialty bolt action.

    Mosin 1939 Tula
    007.JPG 003.jpg

    Izhevsk 1937
    012.JPG 408.JPG

    Tula Hex 1928
    011.JPG 404.JPG

    M91/59
    718.JPG 100_2377.JPG

    Russian M44
    002.JPG 029.JPG
     
  3. lionking

    lionking Member

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    So based on the pics I posted above the argument of a hunting rifle guaranteed at 1 MOA, vs a surplus rifle, the hunting rifles hardly ever come with iron sights, they are scoped only, do 10 shots in ten minutes (not just 3) and post a target let's see the group, lets's see the group with a hunting rifle using iron sights. Surplus rifle with iron sights, depending on the ammo, yeah especially a Mosin because condition varies, 2 to 4 inch five shot groups with the size doubling maybe at 10 shots, still putting 10 shots into a 6 inch gong or SR-1 bullseye at 100 yards without a scope, I imagine a Mosin with a scope doing a lot better.
     
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  4. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    Using a plain old 1930 Izzy, I can regularly achieve 3" 10-shot 100 yd groups, with issue battle sights. This Izzy barrel slugs at .315", I shoot home cast 213gr bullets sized to .316.

    3 MOA with a 90 year old battle rifle, that was never made for accuracy. Plenty accurate enough for hunting, at least the way I do it.

    I think many people underestimate battle rifles.
     
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  5. lionking

    lionking Member

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    I believe it especially since you hand load to it, I know different people have different ideas of what is accurate or not, but factory commercial hunting rifles from what I have seen (and I'm not a expert on every one out there) people shoot 3 or 5 rounds, and call it sighted in ready for the hunt. Because they will go hunt and shoot one or two rounds after. A accurized target bolt action, well different story but how much will that cost ?, probably a lot like $1000 plus without a scope.

    There is this Ruger guide gun 30.-06 for example I don't know much about them, but it has iron sights, I wonder how it would group 5 or 10 shots with average factory ammo using iron sights. This actually interests me because even though I love milsurps wouldn't mind a factory bolt action with iron sights for target and gong shooting and blasting numerous rounds down range with. But if such a rife won't do much better than a surplus I'd rather shoot history like a M1903, Mauser, or Mosin. pix242340199.jpg
     
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  6. Whiterook808

    Whiterook808 Member

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    Has anyone mentioned that milsurps are just plain fun?
     
  7. Hooda Thunkit

    Hooda Thunkit Member

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    I think if you shoot that Ruger with iron sights, you will find 2-3 MOA to be the norm.

    I've read articles from the 19-teens well in to the 50s. Scopes were not in regular use during that time. Rifles that turned in 3 MOA were considered good.

    I know that technology has changed since, as has manufacturing techniques, but I believe the sights are the limiting factor. Iron sights are just too coarse, excepting some peep sights, for very precise work.
     
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  8. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    There are seldom any single Mosin or more than one SKS at the Germantown (Memphis) gun shows. These now-rare SKS are always the common, but reliable semi-military Chinese with the fat "shish kebob skewers" on the muzzles.

    There are no more Enfields (my former main interest) and very seldom do we see even one example of an imported AK: the types which don't have the soft, cheap commercial steel like the main components in most "Century" (outsourced) AKs.
    Even Makarov handguns plus the others which are Chambered in 9x18 Mak have disappeared. Other than a few M-1s, some old revolvers and 1911s, our small shows have no more character....
    …. other than the very Foxy, slender, tall young lady who is a seller's girlfriend. Wow-she made me think I was still in Arnhem, Netherlands since a year ago.

    At least you can drive half a mile from the small show, and jog on literally miles of heavily-wooded dirt trails at Shelby Farms Park.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  9. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    No more enfields? That's sad, I love mine.

    I did always want a Gibbs 45-70
     
  10. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    Wow, this one blows me away, I did not know such a thing existed, So as the young folks say, whats the 411 on this, How much?? When?? and wow can you really stuff a 45/70 in an Enfield...

    I do not know if I want one, but I sure as damn well want to shoot one...
     
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  11. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    Gibbs did sporterized enfields years ago and 45/70 was one of them. I've never seen one irl
     
  12. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

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    The major issue is the barrel, the bolt and action readily holds a 45/70 and is suitable for a rimmed cartridge. The open faced bolt head on the Enfield is a major plus for conversions. Apparently, the Enfield conversion used a proprietary magazine which maybe Val Forgett's Old Western Scrounger etc. might still handle as a spare part. Both might or might not have required alterations to the receiver feeding ramps. Here is a review of such a Enfield conversion https://www.chuckhawks.com/gibbs_summit.htm

    Apparently the receiver did take a bit of adjusting for these https://www.enfield-rifles.com/4570-conversion_topic3614.html

    Siamese Mausers were also commonly converted to 45/70 because the Siamese used a rimmed cartridge as well with a somewhat similar length. Old THR thread about it https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...h-is-a-navy-arms-siamese-mauser-45-70.756819/ I do not know if the Siamese conversions required altering the feed rails in the receiver.

    I have also seen reports of Steyr Mannlicher m95's being converted to .303 for similar reasons.
     
  13. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    I didn’t realize a magazine was available for the 45-70 conversion. I always thought it was a single-shot conversion.
     
  14. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    I guess it never occurred to you that those people can't shoot worth a darn, no matter what they used?
    Or perhaps that particular rifle was just plain worn out?
     
  15. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

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    Merle1, I have a few mosins. All are 2-3" groups at 100 yards rested. That is pretty good for a cheap, mass produced WW2 rifle. Some are better then that. I would say they did not shoot them right.
     
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  16. Mosin77

    Mosin77 Member

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    Military surplus guns are a heck of a lot more interesting to plink with than some technically excellent, yet completely devoid of character $200 Ruger or Savage. If you want a cheap hunting rifle, by all means these are better. But for history, unique actions, and just overall fun, the milsurps have it.
     
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  17. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    at one time or another, various Lee Enfields, British P14s and Siamese Mausers have been converted to 45-70 - plus several other similar calibers.
     
  18. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    Intriguing read. Moocho thanks... I would like to look over one of the Enfield 45/70s, Sounds like a cool item from a bygone age..(The age of to many surplus rifles).

    Now I have been always in love with the 45/70 conversion of the Siamese Mausers. Seems like a cheap way to shoot a Siamese. But it seems like everyone that converted them had to have sporterized them also. Been searching for that unicorn for some time.

    I do not know about Steyrs m95s being converted to 303 but have seen many of the Dutch Mannlichers m95s that were converted to 303 by the Indonesians after WW II.. Several nice variations there.. and also a plus you can drop the rifle into all those fine numerous Mannlicher M95s carbine stocks.. easier then reloading the 6.5x53.

    https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=4797

    AGAIN MANY THANKS..
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  19. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    My take on the Mosins is they are very accurate on the first shot. When the barrel is cold, they are dead-on POA. But if you want a tight group, I hope you
    have a couple hours, and some Bore Butter. Because after the barrel starts to get warm, accuracy goes right down the crapper.

    Yeah, still a lot of fun to shoot.
     
  20. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    not so with mine - perhaps you have bedding issues?
     
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  21. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    So the bedding is fine, for the first shot, every time ? It's a military rifle, a 1926-91/30, if it's got " bedding", it's probably circa 1946 cosmoline, from post WWII storage prep.
     
  22. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    the problem is when the barrel heats up - and the group either expands or walks in some direction.
    once the barrel cools down, it returns to where it started.
     
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  23. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    You just don't see a lot of "bedded" military rifles.
     
  24. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    not so, they are all bedded, just not in the same way as current commercial rifles are.
     
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  25. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

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    Never had that issue with mine. In fact i have not had any grouping issues with any of mine. only issue that was resolved was some were dialed in with the bayonet and some were not. You will notice the first round or 2.
     
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