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Surplus rifles

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Antihero, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. fpgt72

    fpgt72 Member

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    No you will not.

    And not all shoot minute of barn......
     
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  2. fpgt72

    fpgt72 Member

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    Now quit doing that....let people live in their own little stereotype world.....perhaps we will hear how some people are lazy, stupid, born criminals....this or that car brand is junk....I wait for more of his....cough wisdom cough.
     
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  3. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    Actually, my hex-receiver Tula did pretty well after I performed an infantryman's accurizing job on it. I shimmed the receiver with pieces of flattened and shaped Berdan brass and wrapped the barrel under the last couple of inches of the handguard with BLO-soaked thin cotton cloth to stabilize that long, whippy barrel.
    It'll never be a precision gun, but it'll get the job done.
     
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  4. fpgt72

    fpgt72 Member

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    MoM accurate...all it was needed to be...and easy to make.

    But I get it however.... some people think it is a tomato stake....some think the 10-22 is...same deal
     
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  5. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    I love my surplus rifles.
    Turks are my favorite.
    Mosins are fun but a lot of the refurbs are not fitted to the stock well in the recoil lug area.
    Felt bedding is an easy way to bed your Mosin without altering the stock.
    You will need Felt and BLO. Cut a piece of felt to fit the rear of the action and another in the shape of a square cross to fit the recoil lug area.
    This is what the piece for the recoil lug area should look like.
    img004-1.gif

    Wet the felt with BLO and set in place and put the rifle back together. Allow it to sit for a few days to dry and then you are good to go.
     
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  6. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    seems to me I recall the Finns using cork....
     
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  7. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    You can use cork instead of felt, but I have found that felt and BLO work very good.
     
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  8. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    Why are Turks your Favorite???
     
  9. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    One subtle way to spot a true Enfield #5 Jungle: look just Forward of the magazine well.

    The metal contour/shape doesn't quite parallel, or match the shape of the wood's contour. This is exactly the same shape on my Enfield #4s.
    On both of my true #5 Jungles, the metal contour was a bit of a narrower, partial "figure eight".

    To clarify, not the mag well, but the area immed. Forward of it.
    Even Charles Stratton's Lee-Enfield book (soft red covers) never mentions this.
     
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  10. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    I would like to see photos of that to cement that in my brain, I like looking at the Side of the sight picture to start and work my way to the markings..

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/07/22/jungle-carbine-real-fake/

    Also there are real no 5s that have their Bayonet lugs removed and this was done by the Malaysian troops in the Field. Note the 1st 2 lads on the left.

    malaysian.jpg
     
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  11. rust collector
    • Contributing Member

    rust collector Contributing Member

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    I had read that modifications to the "knoxform" were the most obvious change from No. 4 to No. 5 and the link provided demonstrates that clearly. Thank you for the link. Now I'll depart before debate fires up on the spelling of that term and the notorious "wandering zero".
     
  12. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    You'er talking about the trigger guard just behind the King screw. This is not a good way to spot a Jungle carbine because the trigger guard is interchangeable with a standard No4.
    Lightening cuts on the action and carrel are the best way to spot a real Jungle carbine.
    https://www.forgottenweapons.com/enfield-no5-jungle-carbine-video/

    My Jungle Carbine is the only rifle I own that has a name. Her name is Penny.
    IMG_0717.JPG
    IMG_0716.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  13. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    They are the underdog of the Mauser world. I guess I have a soft spot for the Underdog. Plus I have a few of them.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    Oh yes, I have seen that before, you even have the pee funnel cleaning cup that I lust to have.. Fantastic photo... dare I say a Turkish delight,,, :)
     
  15. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

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    -Looks like you're going to need a longer fence.
     
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  16. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    The #5 "Jungle"......
    Folks: If I understood how to post photos, would have been doing so since 2007. The same with Armslist etc.

    Think of a long semi-circular wooden cutout, forward of the #5's magazine well.
    Now picture that the metal is a slightly different shape, narrower enough that it doesn't really follow the outline, somewhat of a very skinny, partial figure 8.

    And if still legible they are stamped no. 5.
     
  17. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    Photos are easy to post.
    When you make a post, look just below where you type in your text where the POST REPLY button is, just to the right is another button that says, UPLOAD A FILE. Tap it and it will open your browser. Just use your browser to open the file where your photos are and pick the one you want . It’s pretty easy from there.

    The part of the rifle you are talking about is the front of the trigger guard .
    Here’s a pic of a standard No4 Mk1* and a Jungle Carbine
    18662AA6-2CCB-4124-951A-C078CC23519C.jpeg

    But like I said before, the parts are interchangeable so, it’s a poor way to spot a real Jungle Carbine.
    The lightening cuts on the receiver is the best way to spot one without removing the handguard.
    B285855D-7642-4D28-9B4D-73C429AFA10D.jpeg 8D79C617-D975-4B31-B587-74AAF3DDE9FE.jpeg
     
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  18. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Excellent point. I had never read that this part was known to be swapped between the no. 4 and no. 5.

    As sellers might not let us remove their upper hand guards to check for scalloped, lightning cuts, at least the “no. 5” was visible on the receivers when I first saw the rifles.
     
  19. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    Thanks gunny.. for the photos and thanks Ignition for that that tip, I never noticed that part of the trigger guard being thinned out cut like that for the No 5s.

    You know it would be interesting to see how many more hours of machine work it took to make a no5 receiver & parts over the no4.. And also excluding the shorter barrel and stock, just how much weight did all that extra work save.???

    Again thanks for the photos..
     
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  20. lionking

    lionking Member

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    Those Ruger or Savage don't even come with iron sights, which is fine if you only want to scope the gun. I wouldn't pay $400 for a run of the mill Mosin either, and different people have different likes for what they shoot. However a nice Swedish Mauser or Swiss K31 or Finnish Mosin, even at today's prices I would buy but that's me. See link. However it would be interesting to see what that Predator could do at 100 yards 10 shots within 10 to 15 minutes with a warm barrel and with surplus 7.62x51mm or Prvi ammo which on average can be had for around .47 to .65 cents a shot the average price of surplus rifle calibers made by Prvi. Get some Federal premium ammo at $1.00 a round and yeah might be super accurate in the Predator but expensive to shoot also.

    For budget shooting in these times, AR-15 and .223 is king, followed buy a AK or SKS of some sort with again 7.62x39mm not expensive to shoot and after that a M1 carbine of some sort which a 50 round box can be had at around $18.00.

    But there are still some surplus out there that is not too crazy priced, Yugo Mauser , maybe a K31 if you find a deal or still find a run of the mill Mosin for under $300.00, some of these people on gun broker list a price that is just wishful and nobody will probably buy. LOL $400.00 plus for a normal refurbed Mosin plus the shipping plus the transfer fee to your FFL ......lol. Those listers on gun broker are listing with a attitude of " this is my price take it or leave it don't care if you buy or not". Because listing fees are free so they don't loose money if the item doesn't sell if they had to pay a listing fee they would be more motivated to price the item to move.

    https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/223347427-Fees

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...itary-surplus-rifle-10-shot-challenge.856980/
     
  21. lysanderxiii

    lysanderxiii Member

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    They didn't make No 4 parts then re-manufacture them into No 5 parts, the No 5 receiver and all the other unique parts were made on their own dedicated tooling. The production time was pretty much the same.

    In total they cut 2 pounds off the weight, not bad.
     
  22. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

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    2 lbs? That does not sound like much. But it is alot when you are carrying all day.
     
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  23. indy1919a4

    indy1919a4 Member

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    Do not think anyone thinks they made no 4 parts into no 5.. But there was extra work/steps in making a no 5 receiver then making a no 4.. and that cost a bit..

    and was the 2 pounds just in those machining changes or did that include the barrel and stock..???
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  24. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

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    Indy, according to the specs. its the entire rifle. 7 lbs 9 oz VS 9 lbs 6 oz of the no4.
     
  25. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    That's how and why I got into the game. Started way too late though... I got in just as the surplus was drying up, then looked up one day and saw that those $120 Mosin 91/30s were now $280 Mosins and wondered what the heck happened.

    TBH, I think the surplus game is effectively dead now. US WWII guns are all north of $1000, Mosins are priced way out of reason, Enfields are gone, most of the Mausers are gone, all the fun "niche-y" stuff like MAS 49s and Hakims are gone, Norinco import SKSs and MAK 90s are expensive, all the cheap ammo is gone...

    If I was starting a gun collection from scratch today, the only milsurps I'd be interested in would be an SKS and some flavor of Mauser in 8mm. SKSs still have value today at around $400; I'd rather have an SKS than an AK, and most AKs today go for nearly twice that. Likewise, Mausers are a little pricey, but they're still worth it. They have probably the best actions out of any of the old school bolt rifles, and the build quality is pretty high across the board.

    Of course, there are still plenty of odds and ends out there in classifieds and gun shows, and hardcore gun aficionados will be picking through those for years to come. But it's never going to be what it was in the 80s and 90s where you could grab a $60 Mosin and $50 case of corrosive x54 and go blast away.

    Heck, I know some guys back in the 90s who thought it'd be fun to put a case of Norinco x39 through their SKS every weekend. The barrel was completely shot out after a month or two; whether the steel bullets or the corrosive primers got it first, I will never know. But imagine buying a $100 rifle and shooting it smooth with $80 cases of ammo... those were the days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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