Surprise! It's NOT Just Bump Stocks (Ban Announcement)...

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DoubleMag

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Fellow High Roaders,

Please look at these articles for initial clarification. I guess it was just mere coincidence, or convienence (?:scrutiny:?) this was released late Friday, after the big hubbub of the Omnibus Bill, and before the 2,000,000 kids march. Kinda makes me think they wanted it to...go unnoticed.

Any ways, it looks like another comment period perhaps and I definately want to know , what are the ''other :cool:devices'' , and the legal ramifications of a Dept making or changing laws OH NO WAIT...THEY WANT TO DO IT QUICKLY. Hurry! No one had the chance to read the 2000 page Omnibus bill, why should this be any dif?

Trump Urges Ban on Bump Stocks, other gun modifiers

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/20/trump-urges-ban-on-bump-stocks-other-gun-modifiers.html

And, again here, DoJ Sessions Wants them banned...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/20/trump-urges-ban-on-bump-stocks-other-gun-modifiers.html

Again another similar yet different title, directly meaning a lot more then just bump stocks...'all devices' that turn 'legal ' weapons into machine guns

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...hat-turn-legal-weapons-into-machine-guns.html

Also a quick search of the NRA website didn't yeild any info. I do know they were quoted as supporting a current FL lawsuit against a similar ban.
 
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It would be expected they would try to stay ahead of things like "trigger cranks" and gadgets like the ones in this article ...
https://gizmodo.com/this-trigger-happy-glove-lets-you-simulate-machine-gun-1797434487

How can you soft-peddle the intent of simulating full-auto fire when you name something "the AutoGlove"?
The AutoGlove, scheduled to enter production next month, bills itself as a mechanism that allows for “full-auto fire without ATF approval, tax stamp or firearm modifications.”
Click to expand...

As long as innovators keep trying to find cute ways to "get around" existing NFA law by finding ways to achieve the same end result - meaning sustained rapid fire which the normal user couldn't ever come close to replicating just by quickly pressing & releasing a semi-auto trigger - we're going to see at least 2 things happen.

One ... some number of irresponsible owners will do stupid things with the gadgets, and people will be injured or killed, and the property of other private persons, or the "public" will be damaged or destroyed. If enough of those instances occur, the public will demand action.

Two ... some very small number of people will intentionally use it for deliberate criminal acts and violence. If even a few such instances happen (and especially involving another night club, hotel/music venue, or a school), people will DEMAND something "be done".

The general description that was used when CA legislated against such devices several years ago was "multiburst trigger activators". Even though CA DOJ has stated that bump stocks fall within the existing description, a legislator has introduced a new bill that would amend the existing language to specifically add language using the term bump stock.

When firearm-related "novelties" (bump stocks, trigger cranks, etc) start to help hurt or kill people, by either user negligence or deliberate act, other people get scared. Scared people rush to "do something".

Too bad that common sense is uncommon, huh?
 
Relying on everyone else (including antis, btw) to "act responsibly" so idiots don't blame them for real or percieved acts by other idiots is a really poor strategy to hold onto your own freedoms.

Lemme guess, nobody should ever do a magdump again, since idiots might find it scary?

England is banning manually-operated AR repeaters because they shoot too rapidly. Think about that.
 
all devices' that turn 'legal ' weapons into machine guns
I guess that means no more pants with belt loops.
Should make the china suspender factories happy.



































i
 
They knew that a separate anti-2A bill would not pass, so they snuck it into the budget that was 2,200 pages long and only gave the legislature a few days to review it. Congress doesn't write laws anymore. It just passes them for the President to sign.
 
Is it sneaking when the President is promoting it for a full week, meeting with a giggling Feinstein, etc?

Guess who said the following today about the March For Our Lives protests;
“We applaud the many courageous young Americans exercising their First Amendment rights today. Keeping our children safe is a top priority of the President’s, which is why he urged Congress to pass the Fix NICS and STOP School Violence Acts, and signed them into law.

Additionally, on Friday, the Department of Justice issued the rule to ban bump stocks following through on the President’s commitment to ban devices that turn legal weapons into illegal machine guns.”
 
So a bump stock isn’t an idiotic device invented to circumvent federal laws?
Sure seems that way.

I’m all for freedom and I think I should get to have a full auto if I want one. But that’s not how it is so someone comes in with the novelty bump stock items and finds a work around to a long time federal law that opens a window for the anti gun crowd to take even more of our rights because folks are working around the laws.
 
Ironically, it was the Hughes Amendment that spawned bump stocks. When people could get real machine guns at reasonable prices -- even if they had to jump through all the NFA hoops -- there was no interest in workarounds such as bump stocks. Even now, the realistic solution to bump stocks (other than simply declaring them contraband) is to repeal the Hughes Amendment. Otherwise, even if bump stocks are illegal, they won't magically disappear. You would think that this country learned its lesson from the experience of alcohol Prohibition, but apparently not.
 
I'm sure those with bump stocks will race to destroy property they paid money for because some freak wants to pander to liberals.

Not my thing, but it still pisses me off.
 
SamT1 said:
So a bump stock isn’t an idiotic device invented to circumvent federal laws?
Sure seems that way.

I’m all for freedom and I think I should get to have a full auto if I want one. But that’s not how it is so someone comes in with the novelty bump stock items and finds a work around to a long time federal law that opens a window for the anti gun crowd to take even more of our rights because folks are working around the laws.
Click to expand...

Let’s take a minute to think of the things the ATF could say were “idiotic devices invented to circumvent federal laws.“

Yes.. Bump Stocks
How about arm braces? Probably
How about the Taraus Judge? Depends on the ATF director maybe.
The Henry Mare’s Leg?
Remington 870 tac-14?
That 1911 double barrel.

Keep thinking I bet there are others. Half the guns in California were made as workarounds to their stupid laws.

The spirit of the law, as in the NFA, sucks. In order to keep the spirit of the tax on suppressors you’d have to adjust for inflation... 3,700 dollars.

That’s the spirit of the law, I much prefer the TEXT to what some group of (possibly) anti gun ATF administrators and judges say is it spirit. That is how we got a constitution that protects “rights” the signers would have found abhorrent, if not worse.


You do realize your argument seems to boil down to “we have to stop the guns/accessories made to comply with laws!”
 
This will be a very lively comment period with many challenges to extend it while lawsuits to block the action are fielded.
 
Browning said:
I'm sure those with bump stocks will race to destroy property they paid money for because some freak wants to pander to liberals.

Not my thing, but it still pisses me off.
Click to expand...

I know a guy who has one.

It's gone because of the recently passed WA law.

Don't fear the ATF or congress. Fear your state legislature. Contraband and arrest.
 
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I sort of think all the people highlighting videos of people bumping with their belt buckles... well... it just might not be the best thing to be highlighting in moments like this. Sort of like "Well heck! All our semi-auto rifles don't even NEED bump stocks to bump fire! They can ALL do it without modification!" :uhoh:

I mean, do you really want them to know that? What'll keep them from saying then if all semi-auto rifles can be bumped without a bump stock, then let's ban 'em all?

Maybe I'm just being a Marvin the Paranoid Android... but perhaps not... :confused:
 
Browning said:
I'm sure those with bump stocks will race to destroy property they paid money for because some freak wants to pander to liberals.

Not my thing, but it still pisses me off.
Click to expand...

It’s not about pandering to liberals it’s about not stooping to their level. We are supposed to be better than them. Liberals are the ones who have created a country where if you spend enough on legal fees anything can be in your favor. We will waste our time fighting for a bumpstock that doesn’t accomplish anything when we should be fighting for some easing of our access to things that do protect freedom.
 
SamT1 said:
It’s not about pandering to liberals it’s about not stooping to their level. We are supposed to be better than them. Liberals are the ones who have created a country where if you spend enough on legal fees anything can be in your favor. We will waste our time fighting for a bumpstock that doesn’t accomplish anything when we should be fighting for some easing of our access to things that do protect freedom.
Click to expand...
I don't share your sentiments.

The whole reason this country is in the trouble it's in is because we haven't fought fire with fire.
 
Semi-auto rifles is their goal. Not to be confused with a BFS.
Click to expand...
And yet, they are indistinguishable according to both the proposed rule-change and the anti-gun forces pushing it

hso said:
This will be a very lively comment period with many challenges to extend it while lawsuits to block the action are fielded.
Click to expand...
Let's all put a link to the proposed rule in our signatures, and hell, on our T-shirts.
https://www.justice.gov/file/1046006/download

Brace yourselves; they used 55 pages to ban "just bump stocks, not anything else, we promise" (and a quick glance shows, they likely didn't even do that right)

Has anyone found out if it's been posted to the federal register for comment yet? I know Trump in so many words told us he would ignore our comments, regardless, but much to his frustration, I think they are still required to sift through them and make some kind of half-effort at addressing our concerns with the proposal. There's no search result for 'bumpstocks' or 'machineguns' yet, but I recall from the M855, 41P, and ITAR rule-change fiascos that the .gov site is intentionally difficult to navigate to whatever item you are seeking to comment on.

Focus on the fact they do a terrible job describing bump stocks & that the regs likely won't ban any of the devices on the market. They speak of stocks 'harnessing' recoil energy, yet that's exactly why the ATF had Akins remove the spring from his Accelerator device. If the DOJ/ATF want to play games and treat human anatomy as a 'firing mechanism,' we're well on the Ye Olde path of severing fingers to prevent shootings (medieval kinds would cut off the middle 'drawing' finger of conquered archers to prevent their returning to the battlefield if they were not executed outright, which is where the custom of 'flipping the bird' came from; showing off that you hadn't been disarmed and could still reach out & touch the king if necessary)
 
barnbwt said:
....Focus on the fact they do a terrible job describing bump stocks & that the regs likely won't ban any of the devices on the market. ....
Click to expand...

So by all means, let's strip away the blather. The vast bulk of the notice of proposed rule making consists of background, explanation, and justification. But the actual proposed regulation is merely an amendment to several existing regulations (27 CFR 447.11, 27 CFR 478.11, and 27 CFR 479.11) defining "machinegun." The amendment merely adds the following to each of those definitions:
….For the purpose of this definition, the term “automatically” as it modifies “shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be restored to shoot,” means functioning as the result of a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that allows firing of multiple rounds through a single function of the trigger; and “single function of the trigger” means a single pull of the trigger. The term “machine gun” includes bump-stock-type devices, I. e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.
Click to expand...

That is how the ATF is proposing to change exiting regulations.
 
Browning said:
I don't share your sentiments.

The whole reason this country is in the trouble it's in is because we haven't fought fire with fire.
Click to expand...
You fight fire with fire by fighting the initial legislation that cause you to have to circumvent the current law. It’s stupid to go fight for something that is a work around to a law.

Every time you poke the Liberals by circumventing a law with something that can be seen as controversial they think they need to beef up said law. So we go fight to keep the crappy not even second best device used for a work around while they fight to add to initial law to shut it down. That’s stupid. They win either way. Go for the initial law that caused the need to work around it. Be proactive not reactive.

This bump stock BS is causing my AR15 unwanted attention and I don’t like it. Go fight for machine gun parts kits mfg,if that was legalized the trigger kit and tax stamp should be similar to what a bump stock runs today and worth the 6-8 month wait.

Up next will be the “solvent trap adapter” it’s only a matter of time before some idiot uses one for malicious activity and the Left is giving my suppressor unwanted attention.
 
SamT1 said:
You fight fire with fire by fighting the initial legislation that cause you to have to circumvent the current law. It’s stupid to go fight for something that is a work around to a law.

Every time you poke the Liberals by circumventing a law with something that can be seen as controversial they think they need to beef up said law. So we go fight to keep the crappy not even second best device used for a work around while they fight to add to initial law to shut it down. That’s stupid. They win either way. Go for the initial law that caused the need to work around it. Be proactive not reactive.
Click to expand...
That takes time.

Q : Given that in this climate that NRA 'A Rated' politicians are running for cover and talking about compromise because of the power of the media to change people's mind and help form opinions how likely is it that we'll get the NFA or the 1986 machine gun ban overturned?

A : Not very likely at all.

So your solution is to just sacrifice a little at a time until there's nothing left?

That's a horrible plan.

This bump stock BS is causing my AR15 unwanted attention and I don’t like it. Go fight for machine gun parts kits mfg,if that was legalized the trigger kit and tax stamp should be similar to what a bump stock runs today and worth the 6-8 month wait.

Up next will be the “solvent trap adapter” it’s only a matter of time before some idiot uses one for malicious activity and the Left is giving my suppressor unwanted attention.
Click to expand...
Jeeze, that's the same reasoning as a Fudd just in a different way.

So for you it's not about freedom and everyone's rights, it's about the inconvenience caused to you.

Gee, that's pretty noble of you.

News flash, they're coming after all of us. All of our rights (even those having nothing to do with guns) and all of our guns and the sooner you quit mentally separating yourself from every other gun owner and get with the program (freedom for everyone) the better.
 
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