Surprise! It's NOT Just Bump Stocks (Ban Announcement)...
- Thread starter DoubleMag
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danez71
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I'm not arguing with you.
If you read page 11, they're saying that the phrase single function of the trigger was to mean single pull of the trigger from day 1 of the NFA in 1934 according to legislative history of thr NFA......and goes on to say that the subsequent rulings have been inconsistent and thus miss classifying these things all along.
They are, imo, clearly taking the position of clarifying and not redefining.
Yes, I would agree that is the original definition, copied verbatim in GCA 68 if I'm not mistaken. While they may call it clarification, there is no clarifying the original definition to cover bumpstocks that I can see. They are creating an entirely different, multiple trigger pull, approach to "full-auto.
Maybe these things are done. I don't know. Bureaucrats inventing new definitions of full-auto could really bite us. Ever seen Jerry Miculik racing against a bumpstock? Basically a tie.
Some people understand the difference between the spirit of a law (what the people that passed the law thought it did) and the legal definition of the law. When one uses a legal technicality to continue to do what the people that passed the law thought they banned it makes them revisit the issue and attempt to plug the loopholes. The California “Assault Weapons” ban is an excellent example. CA has been attempting to ban the AR-15 for decades. Every time gun manufacturers have come up with a work around to continue to sell AR-15s in CA. Every new attempt broadens the definition of “Assault Weapon” and sweeps up more guns that were not targeted in the original ban.
Sometimes it is better to let people think they won then to keep poking the bear. Especially when that “bear” has a supermajority and can pass anything they want.
JN01
Member
Regarding the Hughes Amendment, it was thrown in literally minutes before time expired for debate on the bill, and only passed by voice vote because Charlie Rangel claimed it did. Request for a recorded vote on the amendment was ignored by Rangel. Vote on the amendment at around 8:15-
barnbwt
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I'm told Reagan played a role as well since he did sign it, and was advised by the NRA to do so since "they got theirs" as far as policy goals.
We may end up losing semi-autos in the courts because of that short-sighted decision, same as with bump stocks.
In return, we won paltry travel protections that are ignored in the worst offending states to this day.
For all the talk of the NRA ILA masterbrains, their strategies are rather bone-headed in retrospect. They seem to generally fight the wrong fights, when they even try to do so. Honestly, their only use is not in the leadership, but as a rallying point for members & non-member supporters to support candidates by following a handy postcard that *sometimes* advises against antigun candidates. That's fine and dandy, but it's not a lobbying strategy, which is badly needed.
We may end up losing semi-autos in the courts because of that short-sighted decision, same as with bump stocks.
In return, we won paltry travel protections that are ignored in the worst offending states to this day.
For all the talk of the NRA ILA masterbrains, their strategies are rather bone-headed in retrospect. They seem to generally fight the wrong fights, when they even try to do so. Honestly, their only use is not in the leadership, but as a rallying point for members & non-member supporters to support candidates by following a handy postcard that *sometimes* advises against antigun candidates. That's fine and dandy, but it's not a lobbying strategy, which is badly needed.
Thankfully U-tube is taking steps so we don't need to be exposed to nonsense like this. The "Kool-Aide Boy'" is poster child for banishment of all semi-auto weapons including hunting guns like BAR, Winchester 100, Remington 7600,.....
barnbwt
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There's two ways of looking at this, with the same conclusion;
1) That kid explaining bumpfire & showing why these won't work and will lead to a ban on all semis isn't the one getting bans in place. It is anti-gunners writing the laws, and complicit short-sighted gun owners agreeing with the move that legitimizes the effort to "undecideds"
2) The 'greater fool' theory --that there are always dumber or less disciplined people than yourself-- makes it impossible to curtail what you consider poor behavior without some sort of punishment or negative consequence. Agreeing to pass a law is the only way to stop it, but the law itself is justification to go further against behavior that is indistinguishable (all bump fire or even all rapid fire). This is the anti's argument behind banning all guns, actually.
Sorry pal, but you gotta defend that kid if you want to keep your BAR or Winchester 100. Them's the brakes.
1) That kid explaining bumpfire & showing why these won't work and will lead to a ban on all semis isn't the one getting bans in place. It is anti-gunners writing the laws, and complicit short-sighted gun owners agreeing with the move that legitimizes the effort to "undecideds"
2) The 'greater fool' theory --that there are always dumber or less disciplined people than yourself-- makes it impossible to curtail what you consider poor behavior without some sort of punishment or negative consequence. Agreeing to pass a law is the only way to stop it, but the law itself is justification to go further against behavior that is indistinguishable (all bump fire or even all rapid fire). This is the anti's argument behind banning all guns, actually.
Sorry pal, but you gotta defend that kid if you want to keep your BAR or Winchester 100. Them's the brakes.
AlexanderA
Member
Yes, I lay the responsibility for the Hughes Amendment directly at the feet of the NRA. Reagan would have listened to them if they had asked him not to sign it. But they had too much invested in lobbying for the McClure-Volkmer Act (FOPA) to let the Hughes "poison pill" stop it.
I was an FFL / SOT dealer at the time, and the industry had pretty much adjusted to the pre-FOPA state of affairs. The FOPA reforms were a marginal improvement, but not nearly enough to outweigh what Hughes did to the machine gun aspect. I got out of the business not long after that.
I'm still bitter about the NRA's role in this.
What I recommend is to avoid shouting matches and devote our attention to,
1. teaching as many new shooters to safely understand and operate firearms.
2. Contact by phone and as many e-maid addresses as you own very member of congress both national and state offices and let them politely know your opposed to new useless laws
3. Thanks those in congress both national and at the state level for their support
4. Invite state and national legislators to come to your range (hopefully when it is full of couples and give them a tour, let them talk to members, and if you are lucky give them a quick lesson and hand them a .22.
5. Get more mothers involved in shooting. They are the first respondents for their children. Legislators listen to women of any age as opposed to men in tactical gear with vests and patches all over them.
cut your time on gun forums and get active e-mailing legislators. You will be better off for it.
1. teaching as many new shooters to safely understand and operate firearms.
2. Contact by phone and as many e-maid addresses as you own very member of congress both national and state offices and let them politely know your opposed to new useless laws
3. Thanks those in congress both national and at the state level for their support
4. Invite state and national legislators to come to your range (hopefully when it is full of couples and give them a tour, let them talk to members, and if you are lucky give them a quick lesson and hand them a .22.
5. Get more mothers involved in shooting. They are the first respondents for their children. Legislators listen to women of any age as opposed to men in tactical gear with vests and patches all over them.
cut your time on gun forums and get active e-mailing legislators. You will be better off for it.
Deanimator
Member
That's not Orwellian... it's Maoist.
You're not pushing gun control anymore.
You're pushing THOUGHT control.
Not only do you expect real gun owners to obey the LAW, you demand that we adopt the mindset of the totalitarians who want us to not BE gun owners. You want us to EMBRACE our oppression.
You want real gun owners to not just obey the law, but to submit to the poisonous IDEOLOGY of totalitarian gun banners.
While we're at it, why don't we just resolve never to criticize another gun control law. After all, it'll just antagonize those who want to disarm us, right?
NO, I REFUSE.
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Swifty Morgan
member
It was stupid to design, make, and sell items intended to be, and openly promoted as, mechanisms for turning semiautos into machine guns. It was a pointless provocation that helped no one. The NRA has been racking up successes for years, and the childish people behind bump stocks and similar toys undermined them and helped put the brakes on the whole operation.
It would be bad enough if Stephen Paddock had used a plain old AR15. His idiotic bump stocks inflamed people who were basically on our side.
It would be bad enough if Stephen Paddock had used a plain old AR15. His idiotic bump stocks inflamed people who were basically on our side.
Let's try this...
It would be bad enough if Stephen Paddock had used a 30 round magazine Oops he did
It would be bad enough if Stephen Paddock had used a camera monitoring system to surveil incoming police Oops he did
It would be bad enough if Stephen Paddock had used bomb devices Ooops he had it, thank God he didn't use it
It would be bad enough if Stephen Paddock had used a rifle scope Er, I think I remember 1 rifle was scoped?
It would be bad enough if Stephen Paddock had used a silencer (he didn't although, at the shriek of Hillary, Speaker Ryan folded like an extremely wet tissue paper & pulled HPA)
etc
Let's have a 55page DoJ >confiscation brief< about any item used in a crime, before the final report is released for all parties to see and make informed decisions; before all the facts are known.
It's bad enough, that he perpetrated EVIL upon innocents, because HE was evil not the item(s) used, which have been in use before and after with non ill effects, by lawful NON-EVIL people
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Let us pray or whatever we need to do that there is no another Stephen Paddock. If there is one the game is over. Well, I'am a simple man and just want to keep my H&H for bunny, squirrel, birdie hunting......with perhaps few 2&1/4" 00 BK cartridges to keep aggressive black bear away. Guess Joe Biden approved so I guess I will be ok?
AlexanderA
Member
What I'm seeing from the above comments is that the RKBA is skating on thin ice. For something that's enshrined in the Bill of Rights, it shouldn't be this way.
The takeaway lesson from this is that every item in the Bill of Rights is meaningless unless it's supported by a social consensus. Gun advocates, I think, have it backwards, relying on the 2nd Amendment as if that is the end of the argument. Instead, we should be bolstering the social support of the 2nd Amendment. That's going to take a lot of outreach work that's not being done today. It will mean crossing the "tribal" limitations that we seem to be imposing on ourselves. Interest in guns will have to be expanded beyond the world of traditional values and political conservatism.
The takeaway lesson from this is that every item in the Bill of Rights is meaningless unless it's supported by a social consensus. Gun advocates, I think, have it backwards, relying on the 2nd Amendment as if that is the end of the argument. Instead, we should be bolstering the social support of the 2nd Amendment. That's going to take a lot of outreach work that's not being done today. It will mean crossing the "tribal" limitations that we seem to be imposing on ourselves. Interest in guns will have to be expanded beyond the world of traditional values and political conservatism.
We are drifting further and further off topic. Time to call it a day.
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