Swapping cylinders on revolvers? Timing?

Status
Not open for further replies.

MikeInOr

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
2,217
Location
Oregon
I came across the new Taurus 692 while surfing this weekend. It seems like an interesting concept to be able to swap the .357/.38 cylinder for a 9mm cylinder and shoot 9x21 in your 38/357 revolver! I think there is a Ruger Redhawk model with similar capabilities of using a 45LC cylinder or swapping a 45acp cylinder in? It also seems like I have surfed across some mentioning of accuracy issues with the Redhawk with swapable cylinders?

On my Dan Wesson revolver the docs specifically state that replacing a cylinder is a factory only operation because each cylinder is matched to the frame. I assume this is to keep the cylinder and bore as concentric as possible? I would guess that the process of timing the cylinder to the frame would be a matter of shimming cylinder stop one way or the other so the cylinder is best aligned with the bore?

If the cylinder timing is accomplished with shimming the the cylinder stop it would seem that the alignment is accomplished in the frame and not by milling "tweaking" the cylinder? Which would leave me to conclude that any frame could only practically be timed to a single cylinder unless great care was taken to machine the cylinder stop notches in two cylinders to line up near perfectly?

Am I correct in extrapolating that "a" big difference between a high end revolver and a middle of the road revolver is how precisely the revolver is timed? Am I correct to assume that a Taurus is timed to a precision of "won't blow up in your face" where my Dan Wesson is timed to a precision of a high degree of accuracy to maximize the repeat-ability of where the bullet impacts the paper? This would also lead me to conclude that there is room for accuracy improvement in most budget revolvers?

I am a semi-auto guy and kind of new to the world of precision revolvers so please excuse my ignorance.
 
Last edited:
I think there is a Ruger Redhawk model with similar capabilities of using a 45LC cylinder or swapping a 45acp cylinder in?
Could be...I don't know. The Ruger revolvers that I'm aware of that have interchangeable cylinders (357/9mm & 45Colt/45ACP) are single action, Blackhawks. Oh yeah - I forgot the Ruger, Single Six 22LR/22Mag too, but it's a single action too.
At any rate, to answer your question...I'll bet if you had even a Ruger Blackhawk 357 Magnum, and you wanted a new cylinder for it, 9mm or 357, you'd have to send it back to the factory for the very reason you mentioned...timing.
Am I correct in extrapolating that "a" big difference between a high end revolver and a middle of the road revolver is how precisely the revolver is timed?
That could be too. I have a Freedom Arms 357 Magnum that is definitely the most accurate (or "precise" if you prefer) revolver I've ever owned. And Freedom Arms brags a lot about their "bore through" method of cylinder alignment. I'm not sure, but I think that means they cut the cylinder notches, install the cylinder in the frame, then bore the holes in it through the revolver's barrel. Thus insuring "perfect" alignment, or "timing."
BTW, I used to have a Ruger Blackhawk with interchangeable 357 and 9mm cylinders. I never found it very accurate with the 9mm cylinder installed. But I though that was probably due to the long bullet jump from the mouths of the 9mm cases, to the barrel's forcing cone. A few people have suggested it might have been due to shooting .355" (9mm) bullets through a .357" diameter bore too. But I don't know for sure about that either.
 
Look at the ejector star, those metal projections on the star are called the ratchet.
When you pull the trigger the hand comes out of the frame window and pushes up on the tooth of the ratchet. That rotates the cylinder into position so the cylinder bolt can pop up and hold the cylinder in alignment. Very fine adjustment with a file or stone to the hand and rarely to an individual tooth is how the timing is adjusted. Each ratchet on the ejector star is fitted to the specific hand for each revolver. This is a job for a gunsmith if you want to be sure of a proper fit.

That being said sometimes you can swap cylinders on the same model of revolver and have it work fine as factory specs are narrow enough that it will work. Depends on the maufacturer and the model. Modern ruger and smith revolvers are more likely to fit as are ruger single actions. You can always find a used cylinder and try it, just inspect it carefully for alignment and make sure it locks on each charge hole.
 
Last edited:
I remember a Clint Eastwood movie where he went into a shop to look for a gun, looked like a .36 Navy, where he completly rebuilt the gun on the counter, including changing out the cylinder before he was happy with the gun. Then he did what the man with no name did best, assault and mahem abounded. Hmmmm...no factory timing problems there.....
 
I remember a Clint Eastwood movie where he went into a shop to look for a gun, looked like a .36 Navy, where he completly rebuilt the gun on the counter, including changing out the cylinder before he was happy with the gun. Then he did what the man with no name did best, assault and mahem abounded. Hmmmm...no factory timing problems there.....

While mixing and matching parts is Hollywood/Italian fabrication, those old black powder single actions aren't fitted like a modern revolver, especially a swing out DA.
Clint also swapped out cylinders on an 1858 as a speed loader of sorts. This is still a viable way to reload one. I keep a spare pre loaded in my bag when I go to the range.

Even the off the shelf conversions seem to work with very little hand fitting needed.
 
Very fine adjustment with a file or stone to the tooth and or the hand is how the timing is adjusted. Each ratchet on the ejector star is fitted to the specific hand for each revolver. This is a job for a gunsmith.

I was watching a youtube video where the smith was explaining that they generally replace the indexing arm with a longer, fatter arm and then fit the width of the new arm to the indexing window and shorten it with a stone until the indexing is correct. Very interesting... I like knowing how things work. I couldn't imagine trying to stone down a ratchet tooth... unless the indexing from one cylinder to the next was different... seems like it would be a ton of work!
 
That could be too. I have a Freedom Arms 357 Magnum that is definitely the most accurate (or "precise" if you prefer) revolver I've ever owned. And Freedom Arms brags a lot about their "bore through" method of cylinder alignment. I'm not sure, but I think that means they cut the cylinder notches, install the cylinder in the frame, then bore the holes in it through the revolver's barrel. Thus insuring "perfect" alignment, or "timing."
BTW, I used to have a Ruger Blackhawk with interchangeable 357 and 9mm cylinders. I never found it very accurate with the 9mm cylinder installed. But I though that was probably due to the long bullet jump from the mouths of the 9mm cases, to the barrel's forcing cone. A few people have suggested it might have been due to shooting .355" (9mm) bullets through a .357" diameter bore too. But I don't know for sure about that either.

I am aware of Freedom arms revolvers and their reputation... I didn't know about their bragging about their bore through method of aligning the cylinder with the bore... makes a lot of sense.

I was looking at a 45lc / 45acp Redhawk when I came across the reported accuracy issues with them. The extra bullet jump does make a lot of sense. It seems that some people have been very happy with the 45lc / 45acp accuracy and others have been very disappointed with it... especially with the 45acp cylinder. I think the 45lc/45acp Redhawk is a pretty new model released in the last year or so.

I believe the S&W 625 is a revolver that will shoot 45acp and 45lc using the same cylinder? I came across several accuracy complaints with this revolver also. Although what I read said both 45lc and 45acp are now standardized on .451 bullets but the 45lc case has a large diameter than the 45acp case so the 45acp (in moon clips) makes a pretty sloppy fit in a 45lc chamber.
 
I remember a Clint Eastwood movie where he went into a shop to look for a gun, looked like a .36 Navy, where he completly rebuilt the gun on the counter, including changing out the cylinder before he was happy with the gun.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Yeah, I remember that. It was in "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly." The "gunsmith" was Eli Wallach though. Eli rebuilt that gun to kill Clint, who had left him stranded in the desert.;)
 
My Blackhawk is equally accurate with 45colt or 4acp. That might just be my poor shooting.

I bought an eBay 9mm cylinder for my 357 Blackhawk and apparently got lucky. It works just fine.

I had a Taurus Tracker 22lr/22mag DA revolver that came with two cylinders. It had a clever system for switching them out. They both shot fine, IIRC.

Does anyone have more info on 45 colt ammo and the S&W 625? I have a 625, but I never considered putting 45 colt ammo in it.
 
Given you stay within engineering "dash number" you can sometimes change out cylinders on S&Ws with out timing issues. Usually, but not guaranteed. I have several 686-6s which I've swapped 7 shot and 6 shot cylinders no problem. In some respects the hand isn't as exact or precise as one might imagine. It has to rotate the cylinder until it locks and then have the ability to over travel without damaging itself.

Don't know if Ruger and Taurus work exactly the same way.
 
My Blackhawk is equally accurate with 45colt or 4acp. That might just be my poor shooting.

I bought an eBay 9mm cylinder for my 357 Blackhawk and apparently got lucky. It works just fine.

I had a Taurus Tracker 22lr/22mag DA revolver that came with two cylinders. It had a clever system for switching them out. They both shot fine, IIRC.

Does anyone have more info on 45 colt ammo and the S&W 625? I have a 625, but I never considered putting 45 colt ammo in it.

I believe a 625 comes in a 45 lc version and a different 45 acp version. I thought there was a version that was made to shoot both.... but I can't locate it now. Maybe I was thinking of a custom job.
 
I believe a 625 comes in a 45 lc version and a different 45 acp version. I thought there was a version that was made to shoot both.... but I can't locate it now. Maybe I was thinking of a custom job.

I have two 625 revolvers in .45 acp, they have short .45 acp cylinders and a long forcing cone on the barrel. The length of the barrel forcing cone would prevent using a longer .45 Long Colt cylinder on the two that I own.
 
I have two 625 revolvers in .45 acp, they have short .45 acp cylinders and a long forcing cone on the barrel. The length of the barrel forcing cone would prevent using a longer .45 Long Colt cylinder on the two that I own.
Same here. I've only shot 45acp in mine, but I've heard of some people running 45 GAP in them and it apparently works fine as they both headpace on the moon clips. I've never heard of shooting 45LC from a 625, but then I haven't really researched it either.
 
Look at the ejector star, those metal projections on the star are called the ratchet.
When you pull the trigger the hand comes out of the frame window and pushes up on the tooth of the ratchet. That rotates the cylinder into position so the cylinder bolt can pop up and hold the cylinder in alignment. Very fine adjustment with a file or stone to the hand and rarely to an individual tooth is how the timing is adjusted. Each ratchet on the ejector star is fitted to the specific hand for each revolver. This is a job for a gunsmith if you want to be sure of a proper fit.

That being said sometimes you can swap cylinders on the same model of revolver and have it work fine as factory specs are narrow enough that it will work. Depends on the maufacturer and the model. Modern ruger and smith revolvers are more likely to fit as are ruger single actions. You can always find a used cylinder and try it, just inspect it carefully for alignment and make sure it locks on each charge hole.

I used to have an old model Vaquero in 45 Colt and bought a used 45 ACP cylinder for it, and the cylinder worked perfectly
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top