Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 load discrepancy in LEE data

[offthepaper]

I recently acquired a nice condition Swedish Mauser that I want to reload for. I reload for my other rifles and pistols of various calibers. When I started to assemble my components and data I discovered what I believe to be a significant discrepancy in the LEE load dat for powder charges.
The LEE manual that I have list the load for a 120 gr bullet using H4895 powder with a weight range from 34.0gr to 37.8gr.
My data sheet that came with my LEE loading dies states the charge range from 37.5gr to 41.0gr using the same powder.
Is this a problem or am I being too nit-picky?

Thanks in advance to any advice.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Could one set of data be set for the older weaker action Mausers and the other data is for a modern commercial action? Either way check other reputable data sources and compare.

 

[Vernon102]

Get info from the bullet mfg.
Bullet construction makes a difference.
ie. Hodgdon's online data shows 34.0-37.8 but this is with a Nosler 120BT. No other 120 grainers are listed.

V.

 

[627PCFan]

I show a max load of 40gn with a NBT, 120gn and 41gn with a Speer SP. The Speer data was from 1966***

 

[Slamfire]

I recently acquired a nice condition Swedish Mauser that I want to reload for. I reload for my other rifles and pistols of various calibers. When I started to assemble my components and data I discovered what I believe to be a significant discrepancy in the LEE load dat for powder charges.
The LEE manual that I have list the load for a 120 gr bullet using H4895 powder with a weight range from 34.0gr to 37.8gr.
My data sheet that came with my LEE loading dies states the charge range from 37.5gr to 41.0gr using the same powder.
Is this a problem or am I being too nit-picky?

Thanks in advance to any advice.

A load of a 140 grain bullet with 43.0 grains IMR/AA4350 is a velocity and pressure duplicate of Swedish ball ammunition.

It is also an accurate load

 

[ATLDave]

I love Lee loading products, but their data is just re-printed from someone else. Lee is NOT my preferred data source.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I love Lee loading products, but their data is just re-printed from someone else. Lee is NOT my preferred data source.

Plus 1. I prefer to use withe the bullet manufacturer's data or powder manufacturer's if they use the same bullet.

 

[FROGO207]

I have reloaded for a good many years and my advice is to get data from as many sources (bullet/propellant) manufacturers as you can. It is easy to look up on line these days. I used to use paper manuals. At any rate there are going to be differences as no two test sources are going to be identical so different data results. This might be old data compared to new data in the two Lee sources. They only reprint what they find that is not copyrighted so it is not usually the most up to date either. I take an average of the data and start 10% below max to start and work up from there. This formula has worked for me for years. Note that the data supplied on these threads should be verified with manufacturers data to assure a safe load and then be worked up to just as any other data.

 

[boom boom]

I love Lee loading products, but their data is just re-printed from someone else. Lee is NOT my preferred data source.

Lee's reloading information, like most, should always be crosschecked with other manuals, particularly the most recent powder mfg manuals, and more modern Lee manuals are to be preferred than older ones like others. That being said, if you use the Auto Disk powder measure, the lee manual is useful as it tells you which disk(s) to use. I use one for handgun loads so it has been pretty useful. I reload for fairly obscure old military cartridges and it has been useful there as well in avoiding chasing down old manuals (which I have a few).

The Lee manual also has a hidden gem in the lead bullet section which really exists in no other manual besides perhaps old ones like Phillip Sharpe's and gives specific examples of finding the most accurate reduced loading using these cast bullets. Richard Lee Sr. (rest in peace) notes that it is not the velocity of the load that matters so much as when the firing pressure deforms the bullet base that bad things happen--leading, inaccuracy, etc. He documents load development by extensive tests of lead bullets of a given hardness in .30-06 and figuring out the pressure levels using 4895 (IMR I believe) that result in the most accurate loads for a given hardness of bullet. Perfect example of the scientific method employed by him to discover unknown reloading information.

With the new Hi-Tek and powder coating, if someone had the time, it would be worthwhile to extend this section to cover those bullets as well.

 

[Reloadron]

Well I can share this with you:

Sierra 50th Anniversary Edition
120 grain Spitzer or 120 grain HPBT Match
IMR 4895 34.9 grains to a Max of 41.5
Test Rifle was a M 38 Carbine

Speer #12
120 grain Spitzer
IMR 4895 36.5 grains to a Max of 40.5
Test Rifle was Ruger M 77 MK II

With those numbers in mind you can "shop around" and find other load data and sit back and compare the numbers you see. Find a comfortable starting point and work up a load. It's not at all unusual to see conflicting load data for just about any caliber.

Ron

 

[Random 8]

I tend to stick to Hodgedon's pressure tested data as the base reference in this cartridge. This can be cross referenced with Lyman, Hornady and Nosler data to make some useful educated guesses, but I would err on the side of caution with a Swedish Mauser. I've found Lee data to be somewhat lacking. I have successfully used the 140 grain Hornady, Nosler and Berger match bullets in this round over 42-44 gr of IMR 4350. I settled on the Hornady over 43gr IMR 4350 as the most consistently accurate in my rifle. This is a "warm" load, but within the appropriate pressures for the rifle, so work up to it. Bonus it was also the cheapest.

A note on your 120s. I did work with both the 123 Hornady A-max and 123 Nosler HPBT over IMR 4064. I got superb accuracy, minimal recoil BUT.... In warm weather, with repeated firing and barrel heating, I got some rotational disintegrations at about the 125 yard mark while shooting matches. You might be fine with a hunting type bullet such as the interlock or Sierra PH, just sharing what happened to me. Ruined a wet dream of a slow fire string (ended up with 189 12x) and a probable clean RF prone string costing me a gold pin and a match win at a very competitive CMP match. Still made silver cut with 2 rounds not reaching the target.

 

[ATLDave]

Lee's reloading information, like most, should always be crosschecked with other manuals, particularly the most recent powder mfg manuals, and more modern Lee manuals are to be preferred than older ones like others. That being said, if you use the Auto Disk powder measure, the lee manual is useful as it tells you which disk(s) to use.

I have used auto-disks for years for both handgun and rifle loads (including the double-stack 2-disks-at-once configuration. I have yet to find a single powder where the thrown weights actually match what the Lee volumetric chart predicts. They have never shown me “what disk [hole] to use.” They have shown me a close-but-wrong hole # that I can start with and then correct through trial-and-error, so that is useful.

But I’m never chasing Lee’s charge weights.... always the weights of parties who actually test and publish their own data.

 

[boom boom]

I have used auto-disks for years for both handgun and rifle loads (including the double-stack 2-disks-at-once configuration. I have yet to find a single powder where the thrown weights actually match what the Lee volumetric chart predicts. They have never shown me “what disk [hole] to use.” They have shown me a close-but-wrong hole # that I can start with and then correct through trial-and-error, so that is useful.

But I’m never chasing Lee’s charge weights.... always the weights of parties who actually test and publish their own data.

I always figured the vmd for each lot of powder which gave me +/- .2 grains for powders that metered well. Did not use it on powders like Unique. The Lee AutoDisk settings in their load manual gives you some starting information and I normally disliked using the stacked disks. Also have some disks that I altered on volumes on specific powders for pet loads on things like .38 spc. wadcutter loads.

 

[ATLDave]

I’ve loaded some sub-MOA-at-300 .223 ammo using stacked disks to throw the charges of Varget. I’m making some more of those now, but am trickling the charges... but wondering if I am wasting my time!

To reiterate: I love me some Lee gear. It’s just the load data I don’t rely on. Heck, I’ve got Lee does in my Dillon 650 right now.

 

[Archie]

I rather like and use many items of Lee manufacturer. I am a bit disappointed in the loading data book. Not really taking any problems with the 'how to' part, I find their data rather underwhelming. There is a reason.

One notes all Lee dies are intended to be used with the data provided, and the manufacturer's assumption is the user will utilize the dipper measures provided, and further the user may not have access to a scale for further refinements. In using the dippers, I find all dippers deliver less of the referenced powder than advertised. This policy is to insure the information will not cause an overload or - heaven forbid - damage to firearm, brass or shooter. (I cannot really fault that approach.)

The data in the manual (which is gleaned from other testers information) is intended to be used with the dippers, or perhaps the various volume measurements included with the slide measure devices - which are an advanced form of dippers. There is no adjustments for 'between' charge loads.

However, the result is the beginning or very simple reloader can load safe loads without buying any additional 'fancy' equipment; and those loads will fire. But they are are on the lower end of the pressure spectrum.

To go with higher pressure loads (observing the limits of some actions) one must move to adjustable measures of the adjustable volume type, weighed to insure the correct level of powder or weighed charges for each individual round. One the subject of 'action' strength, always check what sort of device AND the barrel length of the testing devise. I find it hard to duplicate velocities on anything if the test information was used on a rifle with a six inch longer barrel.

I currently have Lyman, Speer, Hornady and Hodgdon loading information (books). The current editions. When a new loading edition is issued, I get one of those as well. I have a good pile of older loading manuals as reference as well, keeping in mind powders - like gasoline and automobiles - do slowly change over time. Which is a different lecture. Here endeth the leccion.

 

[Kwahe]

Offthepaper, I did not see where you perhaps specified which Swedish Mauser you have. Is it a military M38, M96 or M94 or is it Husqvarna model, at least one of which is a large-ring Mauser. This might help you with what load you decide on. I am with Random 8 in that it would be hard to go wrong with Hodgdon's data, since they stop at about 46k CUP or 51k PSI for their max loads in 6.5x55.

 

[Constant Velocity]

All the reloading manuals unless otherwise stated are for the older military actions and most of the loads are rated quite low for safety sake. As a precaution regardless of the rifle you should always start low and work your way up. Your rifle will let you know what it likes
I would like to note that the military mausers have long throats to accommodate the military ammo that was 156 - 160 gr bullets. Those old Swedish mausers like 140 - 160 gr bullets the best for accuracy.
I personally get better results with Varget in the 120 bullet weight and use IMR 4350 for everything heavier.