Swedish Police TV Series.

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whughett

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Would seem the Swedish police carry Sig Saur's holstered with an empty chamber.. Just finished watching three seasons of "Wallander" on NETFLIX. Wallender is an inspector that heads a small city CID unit in Sweden.(English subtitles) Every time an officer drew their service pistol they racked the slide. Any scene, the pistol draw and slide rack was one smooth movement. Now its made for television drama, but is it possible a department would have armed members carry service pistols, with an empty chamber. Even scenes where the piece had the magazine inserted the slide was not racked before holstered.
 
Not a horribly uncommon method of carry in some countries. I believe it's been referred to as "Israeli carry".
Its more common in countries or municipalities that don't have a "standard issue" handgun. Their supplies being made up of whatever is available. It's easier to train everyone the same way like that if all their pistols have different manuals of arms.

Whether or not, or why Sweden does it, I have no idea.
 
Now its made for television drama, but is it possible a department would have armed members carry service pistols, with an empty chamber.
I'm not sure what the official chambering policy is, but last September I witnessed an arrest incident near Stockholm and the four armed police officers on the scene didn't rack the slides after drawing their guns, suggesting that rounds were already chambered. It all happened so fast that I didn't pay attention to which make/model pistols they carried but just in case someone can figure it out, the attached picture is taken with phone camera at a distance of 50-60 yards.

Btw, Wallander is one of my favorite TV movie series. Just sufficiently grim and down to earth to keep the drama aspect going. Interesting to hear that Netflix offers it with subtitles in the US.
swe-incident.jpg
 
Swedish police train for 2 years at their academy, NYPD does 6 months. The Swedish police are facing much more violent crime because the demographics have changed there. When they had a fairly homogeneous population, it was one of the most law abiding populations on the planet, immigration over the years has taken it's toll.

I currently go there every year or two to visit with my wife's family, I've seen many changes since my first trip there in 1970. I think back then they carried Walther PP .32's in flap holsters.

As an aside, I've seen the troops guarding the royal palace in Stockholm armed with everything from modern battle rifles to Swedish K's and even a troop in historical uniforms carrying full stocked 1894 Swedish Mausers.

In regards to absolutely nothing, in my opinion, the Swedish police have the prettiest police officers and the cleanest police cars I've ever seen. lol
 
I watched the first couple episodes of "The Bridge" series (the original that inspired the American version) that features Swedish and Danish detectives. In one episode, someone is apprehended at the Swedish PD office (If I remember correctly) and the uniformed cop that is backing up the detective clearly draws, then racks the slide on their duty weapon. Yes, it's just TV, but it's consistent.
 
And Longmire cocks his 1911 each time he unholsters it. It is TV, not reality.

Btw, Wallander is one of my favorite TV movie series. Just sufficiently grim and down to earth to keep the drama aspect going. Interesting to hear that Netflix offers it with subtitles in the US.

LOL, yep, Longmire still one of my favorite series however. Like many here I carry a LCP in a front pants pocket. Chambered round, but its crossed my mind that for safety, and control, if I should carry it with out a round in the chamber.
 
Wallender is also one of my fav's , but I don't put ANY credibility in how the TV ACTORS handle their props. One of my favorite peev's is how poorly the media-shows display how a REAL LAW uses his weapon. Gimme a break.
 
The official policy of the U.S. armed services was to carry the holstered 1911 pistol with an empty chamber or as we now say condition 3. So why should we be surprised if other countries armies/police do the same?
 
Why would they do that? It's stupid. That's the point of a modern DA pistol: it's safe to carry it with one in the pipe. That is certainly how I would carry my Sig p230.

TV writers love the "dramatic" flair of characters racking slides, pumping pump shotguns, etc. It's stupid. If you pay attention, they are often racking the slide when there would obviously already be a round in the chamber... such as shoot a few rounds, make a soliloquy, rack slide, shoot a few more rounds. Urgh!
 
"...Swedish police carry Sig Saur's holstered with..." At least on TV. TV in Sweden isn't reality either.
"...If you pay attention..." And pointing a 1911A1 with the hammer down then firing it.
 
Long time ago one of my high school buddies, who was a MP in the army, told me this tale (he was still in the MPs when he told me it.)

He was on duty at the Fort Polk army post in Vernon Parish, Louisiana. Well they got a call for a bar fight and a 'man with gun' in the fight. They drove up and the people there said the nutjob, carrying a shotgun, drove off down the road. So he and his partner went looking for him. Driving down the road he told his partner to chamber a round in his .45 1911. They carried it chamber empty and 5 rounds in the mag. Partner took it out of the holster and racked the slide.

Came down the road and there was the parish sheriff, with the nutjob prone in the street. Well he and his partner exited the car and did a 'Starsky and Hutch' two handed gun hold on the nutjob. When it was all over my friend then said he unloaded his .45.

What did he discover?

Well his partner FAILED TO CHAMBER A ROUND. Yes his gun was chamber empty while holding it on a suspect.

There is a lesson in that somewhere....

Anyway, with terrorism much more prevalent, I have no doubt more European police carry their guns in condition 1! Not all of 'em, but more than they used to.

Deaf
 
I just finished watching a Finnish police drama on the Acorn network called "Hooked". Excellent acting, by the way.

Anyway, something got my attention about the main character and his associates, who were detectives. In every American police show, the detectives are always walking around the office sprouting guns and shields. Got 'em coming out all over, the bigger the better. In this show, no guns or shields were visible in the office, ever, just their ID cards on a cord around their necks .

They were the brains of the operation, not the brawn. When they did an entry or take down, they hung back and observed the armed and armored uniformed officers carry it out, instead of being the first in as always in an American show.

Quite a difference, didn't feel the need to show how macho they were, and I enjoyed it.
 
Yep, in the US Army of the 1970's and 80's at least the rule was empty chamber.

Fortunately the uniform holster was ye olde 1914 flap holster so odds were that no one noticed when a young PFC or later after a GI bill experience old for the rank 2LT carried cocked and locked.

Unfortunately the uniform holster was the 1914 flap holster (see how I did that?) I tried to have one that was a bit worn so that the brass stud would come out of the wallowed out hole on the flap fairly easily. I also stiffened the flap by using "hunnerd mile an hour tape" to fasten a U shaped bit of coat hanger to the back of the flap. The combination of the stiff flap with a wallowed out hole made it a lot faster to get the 1911A1 out and possible to do so one handed. I used the white "MP cord" lanyard exactly once when it was required in a situation I had to be under arms and in greens. On the other hand when assigned a 1911A1 in the field I used a boot lace to tie off to the lanyard loop and looped the other end to fit over my wrist when sleeping to prevent the 1911A1 from sleep walking as it were.

As an officer I frequently wore an M1912 holster that had the swivel like the holsters the USAF APs sometimes wore. It hung much lower on the thigh and unlike the 1914 NEVER got caught in the seat frame of a Mutt Jeep when exiting the vehicle. It had a leather thigh strap with buckle and that low slug holster caused some folks to laugh about the new gunslinger in town. I covered the brass disc that provided the swivel with black tape to subdue the holster. Usually with this rig though I carried my privately owned Colt Series 70 Mark IV loaded 7+1. Ammo was also privately owned and Speer 200 grain "Lawman" aka "Flying ashtray" was my preferred carry as it was peace time.

I found some things about being commissioned were much better than being enlisted.

BTW after I was commissioned anyone working say payroll or special weapons with me and equipped with a 1911A1 was encouraged to carry locked and loaded. I had one Major that thought I was damn silly for this and he insisted it was "just as fast" to get off a first shot from an empty chambered gun with the hammer down. On the range I demonstrated to three different such nay sayers that that statement was not true. They left me alone after that.

No. Carrying chamber empty and hammer down is not uncommon at all for military use. The folks in charge realized that the chance that Joe Snuffy will have to use a handgun is some what less likely than him having an acciedent when carrying an actually loaded handgun. This is of course a training mater, but training time is better spent on other more pressing topics than combat skills after all......... :)

-kBob
 
I found some things about being commissioned were much better than being enlisted.
But then again, it is all about what you can get away with, regardless of rank.

As an E5 at Ft. Knox in the early 80's I sometimes had to carry a 1911 in order to guard large amounts of money. There were times when I was too lazy to check one out of the arms room and instead carried my Series 70 GM in .38 Super. I hate to think what would have happened should the need to use it have arisen.
 
Speedo66,

You should have been at my first meeting with my Senior NCOs as a brand new Battery XO of a 2LT.

Apparently concept of an O-1 with over six years of service was an alien concept and a shock.

Most fun was a week later when some still had not got the word and an E6 began ragging me about O1s being less valuable than and E6 and the proof was on the pay slip. He went so far as to bet me he made more......I was kind enough to ignore the bet as he had never heard of a maxed out for pay in grade O1.

Despite it being an artillery HQ battery (HHB DIVARTY) I had a few NCOs that caught on right away as I always wore my EIB (Expert Infantry Badge) My motor daddy was an E7 that had made the switch from Infantry at E6 and quietly caught on immediately and did not warn the others as he thought it would be a good joke. He guessed correctly that I got an age waiver because of the prior service and it turned out we knew some places and folks in common and we got along outstandingly.

About the closest I came to getting burned on unauthorized weaponry as an officer was during an alert that we thought might be real. We had to load up and be out the gate in 30 minutes from code word.....I lived 15km out so this was interesting. I really had to trust my junior NCOs that is the E5s and even the E4 in E5 slots that I called Acting Jacks as I had as an enlisted man. One who had the double job of driving a deuce and a half besides herding his little radio section from commo was complaining that we would be going to our first dispersal un armed. As he came to me from Bragg and a team he had a pretty good head on him and understood that if this was a for real go to war then Ivan might not wait for our supply trucks to drive 30 km BACK to the ammo dump and return. So it was that what the First shirt called "The El Tee's little box" came out of my jeep trailor and that ".50 can" got popped open and a 20 round mag with 18 rounds in it got placed in my little SF guy's field jacket pocket. Over the next few minutes other young troopers showed up and got the same or a 7 rough 1911A1 mag or a 25 round starter section as it where for an M-60 until my can was empty.

Well of course no Spetznaz troopers showed up to ambush our convoy. I got commo up with Division and Corps in half the allotted time and all was right with the world and then of course we got a stand down.

All was well and good until one of the Majors asked where on of his young leaders was going and said troopie replied "I need to give the XO back his ammo."

Interesting evening after that. Colonel put on a good show of dressing me down in front of the Major. After the Major left he told me to never bring that can out......of my trailer....until he told me to and then said I should let the Smadge know I had it as well.

DIfferent Major up on one of our go to war sights near the Czech boarder noticed the Pacmyer grips on my Series 70 and thought I was carrying one of those rubber training pistols. When I explained that it was a privately owned weapon and that the colonel authorized me to carry it. The Major insisted on seeing it. I had my driver load so I could hand the "battle Book" (Divarty copy of the divison battle plan which when out of the safe had be under armed guard) and drew and cleared. The Major was excited about my carrying locked and loaded and then more excited when he saw what ammo I was carrying, those Speer JHPs. There followed the whole Hauge and Geneva convention thing and then being escorted to the Colonel. There was another dressing down in front of a Major.

The major left happy to have been a PITA and the Colonel turned back to me and said "Did you tell him I said you could carry whatever the hell you want?"

"Sir, yes, sir"

"Then why did you argue with him instead of just telling him to come see me about it?" He then had to look at the ammo. I had to explain that most GI issue 1911A1s would not cycle the stuff worth a hoot. Eventually it turned out that anytime we were to go all warrior like that the Colonel , his driver and the Sarn't Major would each receive one round of "the good stuff" for carrying in the chamber of their own Cocked and Locked 1911A1s.

In both those cases I was just darn lucky to have a Mustang of a Colonel that made it to E5 before West point prep and West point. BTW my immediate boss the HHB Commander was also prior enlisted, E6, before going to Artillery OCS. I once heard an NCO comment to another that working for three Mustangs stacked one atop the other was a burden to much to bear.

-kBob
 
Guys, if you ever read John Farnam's Quips on his website (he trains Marines all the time) you will see he INSIST of hot ranges and tells them to carry in condition one if you possibly can, military service or civilan (and bend the rules if need be.)

You know, one day we are going to be a real war where the enemy is pretty good themselves and a lot of people are going to die needlessly cause of these rules. I can just see it happening.

I just hope some of them took Farnam's classes and bent the rules some.

Deaf
 
I'm surprised that Netflix would use subtitles. Wallender is a BBC production and most of the actors, including Kenneth Branagh, are British. The DVDs I borrowed from my public library were in English. No subtitles or dubbing.
 
Speedo66,

You should have been at my first meeting with my Senior NCOs as a brand new Battery XO of a 2LT.

Apparently concept of an O-1 with over six years of service was an alien concept and a shock.

Most fun was a week later when some still had not got the word and an E6 began ragging me about O1s being less valuable than and E6 and the proof was on the pay slip. He went so far as to bet me he made more......I was kind enough to ignore the bet as he had never heard of a maxed out for pay in grade O1.

Despite it being an artillery HQ battery (HHB DIVARTY) I had a few NCOs that caught on right away as I always wore my EIB (Expert Infantry Badge) My motor daddy was an E7 that had made the switch from Infantry at E6 and quietly caught on immediately and did not warn the others as he thought it would be a good joke. He guessed correctly that I got an age waiver because of the prior service and it turned out we knew some places and folks in common and we got along outstandingly.
Thank you so much for this ! :)



About the closest I came to getting burned on unauthorized weaponry as an officer was during an alert that we thought might be real. We had to load up and be out the gate in 30 minutes from code word.....I lived 15km out so this was interesting. I really had to trust my junior NCOs that is the E5s and even the E4 in E5 slots that I called Acting Jacks as I had as an enlisted man. One who had the double job of driving a deuce and a half besides herding his little radio section from commo was complaining that we would be going to our first dispersal un armed. As he came to me from Bragg and a team he had a pretty good head on him and understood that if this was a for real go to war then Ivan might not wait for our supply trucks to drive 30 km BACK to the ammo dump and return. So it was that what the First shirt called "The El Tee's little box" came out of my jeep trailor and that ".50 can" got popped open and a 20 round mag with 18 rounds in it got placed in my little SF guy's field jacket pocket. Over the next few minutes other young troopers showed up and got the same or a 7 rough 1911A1 mag or a 25 round starter section as it where for an M-60 until my can was empty.

Well of course no Spetznaz troopers showed up to ambush our convoy. I got commo up with Division and Corps in half the allotted time and all was right with the world and then of course we got a stand down.

All was well and good until one of the Majors asked where on of his young leaders was going and said troopie replied "I need to give the XO back his ammo."

Interesting evening after that. Colonel put on a good show of dressing me down in front of the Major. After the Major left he told me to never bring that can out......of my trailer....until he told me to and then said I should let the Smadge know I had it as well.

DIfferent Major up on one of our go to war sights near the Czech boarder noticed the Pacmyer grips on my Series 70 and thought I was carrying one of those rubber training pistols. When I explained that it was a privately owned weapon and that the colonel authorized me to carry it. The Major insisted on seeing it. I had my driver load so I could hand the "battle Book" (Divarty copy of the divison battle plan which when out of the safe had be under armed guard) and drew and cleared. The Major was excited about my carrying locked and loaded and then more excited when he saw what ammo I was carrying, those Speer JHPs. There followed the whole Hauge and Geneva convention thing and then being escorted to the Colonel. There was another dressing down in front of a Major.

The major left happy to have been a PITA and the Colonel turned back to me and said "Did you tell him I said you could carry whatever the hell you want?"




"Sir, yes, sir"

"Then why did you argue with him instead of just telling him to come see me about it?" He then had to look at the ammo. I had to explain that most GI issue 1911A1s would not cycle the stuff worth a hoot. Eventually it turned out that anytime we were to go all warrior like that the Colonel , his driver and the Sarn't Major would each receive one round of "the good stuff" for carrying in the chamber of their own Cocked and Locked 1911A1s.

In both those cases I was just darn lucky to have a Mustang of a Colonel that made it to E5 before West point prep and West point. BTW my immediate boss the HHB Commander was also prior enlisted, E6, before going to Artillery OCS. I once heard an NCO comment to another that working for three Mustangs stacked one atop the other was a burden to much to bear.

-kBob
 
I watched the first couple episodes of "The Bridge" series (the original that inspired the American version) that features Swedish and Danish detectives. In one episode, someone is apprehended at the Swedish PD office (If I remember correctly) and the uniformed cop that is backing up the detective clearly draws, then racks the slide on their duty weapon. Yes, it's just TV, but it's consistent.
I guess Norwegian police don't typically carry. In the film Insomnia (which was remade with Pacino), the main character is a Swede who transferred to the Norwegian police but still carries secretly.

When I was in Oslo I didn't pay attention to any police or their belts. But towards the south of town is a big fort, and the soldiers there were carrying rifles.
 
I'm surprised that Netflix would use subtitles. Wallender is a BBC production and most of the actors, including Kenneth Branagh, are British. The DVDs I borrowed from my public library were in English. No subtitles or dubbing.

There is the original Swedish version and the BBC version. Both are on netflix.

I have not yet seen the Swedish version, but I did notice carrying unchambered in the BBC version.
 
Thanks for that. I don't do NETFLIX, but I have watched the BBC version with Kenneth Brannaugh. I wasn't aware of the Swedish version, though I am aware the author, Henning Menkel is a Swede.
 
There were two WALLANDER series. The BBC one was in English with Kenneth BRANNAGH staring. He liked the books so much, he made the series.
The other series was made in Swedish, staring a Swedish crew.
Both are very good.
 
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