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Swift Boat Vets for Truth? Or Political Gain?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Ransom, Aug 4, 2004.

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  1. Ransom

    Ransom Member

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    http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp


    Interesting read. Apparently even being a vet is open for political games.
     
  2. MarkDido

    MarkDido Member

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    Sorry...

    I'm a Veteran of both Vietnam and the first Gulf War.

    I wouldn't stop to pee on John Kerry if he was on fire.
     
  3. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Member

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    Then Alston didn't have very good leaders.

    But yeah--Kerry does seem to love close contact with other guys :scrutiny:

    TC
    TFL Survivor
     
  4. JPL

    JPL Member

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    It's been joked that during the 1960s campaign that enough of PT-109 JFK's "shipmates" came forward to man an aircraft carrier.
     
  5. Swamprabbit

    Swamprabbit Member

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    In this age of politics, I take ALL stories like this with less than a grain of salt. Too many of today's politicians started their childhood with the ambitions of being a political person someday and lived their whole lives in preparation for it. That is why we get to see pictures and videos of these guys in action whereas how many other soldiers, sailors, etc. liver out their military career without ever a photograph being taken.

    So, regardless of whether the writer is taking my side or not, I simply just don't trust any of it.
     
  6. halvey

    halvey Member

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    That's funny!:)
     
  7. 0007

    0007 Member

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    There's a website - www.swiftvets.com - that has some interesting info on all this.
     
  8. dadman

    dadman Member

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    Other points to consider:

    What Kerry Really Did in Vietnam
    From the article:
    When the Green Berets and SEALs opened fire, the South Vietnamese soldiers jumped the wall and at least ten of the women and children were killed. Meanwhile, against orders, Kerry had again left his boat and attached himself to the Nung and was, by his own words, "shooting and blowing things up". One of the Nung threwew a grenade into a hut which turned out to be filled with sacks of rice. Kerry got grains of rice and some bits of metal debris embedded in his ass, the most severe wounds he sustained in Vetnam.

    A former assistant secretary of defense and Fletcher School of Diplomacy professor,W. Scott Thompson, recalled a conversation with the late Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr. that clearly had a slightly different take on Kerry's recollection of their discussions: "[T]he fabled and distinguished chief of naval operations,Admiral Elmo Zumwalt,told me --30 years ago when he was still CNO [chief naval officer in Vietnam] that during his own command of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam,just prior to his anointment as CNO, young Kerry had created great problems for him and the other top brass,by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets. "We had virtually to straitjacket him to keep him under control", the admiral said. "Bud" Zumwalt got it right when he assessed Kerry as having large ambitions --but promised that his career in Vietnam would haunt him if he were ever on the national stage."


    Fog of War
    A group of veterans says John Kerry stretches the truth about his Vietnam service. Who can you believe? Who knows?

    Shortly after forming, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT) hired a former FBI agent named Tom Rupprath, who is now a private investigator in Rockwall, to locate swift boat vets and to dig up whatever he could regarding Kerry's service record. (Rupprath did not return calls from the Dallas Observer.) In addition to criticizing Kerry for what he said about veterans and war crimes, SBVT has publicly levied some serious allegations about Kerry's recollection of his time in Vietnam and about how his medals (three Purple Hearts for being wounded in combat and a Bronze Star and a Silver Star for valor) were achieved.
     
  9. pinblaster

    pinblaster Member

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    I don't care one way or the other about what Kerry did or did not do in Viet Nam . He has proven himself to be a phony and IMO he is FOS . I'm voting for Bush .
     
  10. madcowburger

    madcowburger member

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    I don't care what Kerry did or didn't do in Vietnam 35-plus years ago either. This election ought not to be some sort of referendum on Vietnam.

    However, if people are going to cast aspersions on Kerry's actual military service record, they'd better be able to back up their charges. Otherwise it could backfire, big-time.

    I wouldn't vote for Kerry for dogcatcher if he bribed me to.

    Whether I'll vote for Bush or not depends 100 percent on what he does or doesn't do about the AWB. If the AWB dies a quiet, natural, long-overdue death on schedule -- if I find myself a slightly freer American on September 14 -- I *may* vote for Bush.

    Otherwise, I'll vote Libertarian again, like I did it 1992 (over the same general issue -- the RKBA ), or not at all. I'm not far from concluding that the usefulness of the ballot box is nearly done, and that the time may be coming to open up other boxes.

    I want to live in a free country, like an American is supposed to. I want to be able to come and go as I please, without particularly having to answer to anybody or explain my business to anybody. I want the full, free exercise of *all* my rights, *all* the time, in deed not in word, in practice not in theory. I'm an American, not an Iraqi, and I don't want to be treated like an Iraqi (or worse) right here in my own country.

    I want the AWB gone for good. I want the 1989 import ban gone for good. I want the 1986 "freeze" on legally transferable (to "civilians") Class III weapons gone for good. I want the Gun Control Act of 1986 gone for good. I want the National Firearms Act of 1934 gone for good.

    I want all these "alphabet soup" armed federal agencies -- including the IRS -- reined in or better yet abolished.

    I want the Bill of Rights, not the will of the politicians currently in office, enforced.

    This country seems more like East Germany or the former Soviet Union every day, and I'm sick of it. I want my free country back.

    MCB
     
  11. DigMe

    DigMe Member

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    It seems from a couple of recent issues that the people of Snopes have shown at least a slight liberal bias in the way they view things. I don't know that I can count on them for objective info like I used.

    brad cook
     
  12. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    Hannity & Colmes will show a rather biting political commercial produced by some anti-Kerry vets. Included in the scene that I saw was the doctor who treated Kerry's first 'wound' which garnered him a Purple Heart.

    They showed some teasing snippets tonite.

    Yikes.

    It is brutal.

    Rick
     
  13. Rebar

    Rebar member

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  14. madcowburger

    madcowburger member

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    It better be true, and provable, is all I can say.

    I despise Kerry, but I don't want something like this blowing up in my face.

    MCB
     
  15. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    Not much on details.

    My guess is that they are hoping it will show in a newsy sort of way (free of charge), and then get the chance to be interviewed to tell the rest of the story.

    Rick
     
  16. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    If Kerry is going to use his time in Vietnam to demonstrate his leadership skills, then his actions 35 years ago have a great impact on this election. Not really a referendum on Vietnam, just a single person's supposed actions. Seems like more eye witnesses disagree with Kerry's version than there are that agree. He's even using vets that didn't serve under him in his commercials to tell how great he was.
     
  17. Sergeant Bob

    Sergeant Bob Member

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    He is using his Vietnam record as part of his campaign, therefore, it should be open to scrutiny, just like anything else.
     
  18. Ransom

    Ransom Member

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    Scrutiny yes. But some of these things seem completely fabricated or at least misleading. The Swift Vets claim that only one of John Kerry's former shipmates supports him. But none of these people actually served under him. In fact, all but one of the men who served under John Kerry support him fully.


    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2004/8/4/0311/48764/6?mode=alone;showrate=1#6

    You cant deny that the Swift Vets are trying to make it look like only one man that served under Kerry supports him when the truth is the exact opposite. The men from Swift Vets for Truth either did not serve under him or hell, didnt even know him. Most of their comments seem to be born of the things John Kerry did after the war that they disagree with.

    If I'm going to listen to someones opinion about what John Kerry did in vietnam I'm going to listen to the guys who were there with him every day serving under him.
     
  19. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    Do you or do you not support Kerry releasing his full military records?
     
  20. Ransom

    Ransom Member

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  21. MP5

    MP5 Member

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    Too bad Dubya hasn't been forthcoming about his iffy service records from the beginning.
     
  22. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Apparently not since there are no evaluations/fitreps nor medical records listed in those documents. Both of those would be directly relevant to the charges made by this group and neither have been released by the Kerry campaign to my knowledge.

    Both Bush and Kerry's former competitor Wesley Clark released evals and medical records to the press as part of their military records as well.

    http://www.boston.com/news/politics.../04/20/kerry_refuses_to_release_more_records/

    There is also the issue that at least some of those records are flat-out wrong. In one of them, Kerry claims to be skipper of PCF 94 during a combat action that actually occured before Kerry even arrived in-country.

    http://www.boston.com/news/politics...4/04/23/discrepancies_noted_in_kerrys_record/
     
  23. OF

    OF Member

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    Part of it? It's the entire campaign!

    If these Swift Boat vets turn out to be disingenuous or worse, it will be unfortunate. Kerry is slime and can be taken down without lies or propaganda. The guy is a sitting duck, we don't need to take the low road to destroy him.

    That said, I know someone who knows Kerry very very well, personally, and he's 'not impressed' to put it extremely mildy. And the Swift Boat vets stories are not out of line with his impressions. Kerry is scum, always has been scum, is completely without honor and totally untrustworthy. He is self-serving and has no convictions of any kind. He has a lust for power that is overriding and has no sense of loyalty, duty or honor. He will say and do anything to reach his personal goals and is the very definition of 'elitist'. There is no lie he will not tell, no back he will not stab, no position he will not abandon on his quest.

    He is Hillary without the sense of social mission.

    - Gabe
     
  24. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    Bush has released all available military records, even though he's not running on his military record. Kerry has not released all his records, and is running almost solely based on his.

    Clinton could get away with attacking the messenger instead of addressing the issue. Kerry cannot. These veterans are just as, if not more highly decorated, then Kerry, and their statements should be taken seriously.

    There are multiple eye witnesses that contradict Kerry's version of what happened, since Kerry has chosen to run on this record, it's imperitive that the American people know exactly what happened there. The fact that he hasn't released the records before now is alone cause for suspicion, considering the emphisis he's placed on this.
     
  25. GSB

    GSB Member

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    For Heaven's sake, they even dredged up his dental records to determine where and when he was on duty. When is enough enough for people?
     
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