Swords

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by kje54, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2020
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Midway USA has them in stock.
     
    RetiredUSNChief likes this.
  2. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    14,440
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    Ok, I'll play. Including the obligatory military blanket.

    IMG_20220531_070751630.jpg

    Top to bottom:
    Cold Steel bokken.
    Ten Ryu 'build a katana' off walmart.com. Decent for the price.
    An extra's sword from Robin Hood; Men in Tights I picked up at Sportsman's Guide many years ago. It is very heavy. I carried it at the MN Renaissance Festival for years.
    A cheap "Viking sword" I got off walmart.com.
    A Deepaka M1831 Short Artillery Sword, bought at Sportsman's Guide. My g-g-grandfather carried one of these in the Civil War, along with an 1858 Remington. The frog is handmade with deer leather.
    Cold Steel Wakizashi machete. Just because. Eventually I will get one to match my katana.
    Daggers, etc:
    Cheap gun show wire wrapped handled dagger, also carried at RenFest. I made the sheath when I was 18, when I bought the knife.
    Even cheaper gun show dagger I also carried at RenFest.
    Cold Steel's less expensive Recon Tanto.
    Swiss AMT bayonet.
     
  3. hk940

    hk940 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    NC, USA
    IMG_1263.JPG IMG_1264.JPG IMG_1265.JPG IMG_1267.JPG The first is my first try at making a dagger, I did cheat and used a french bayonet as the blade, the scabbard is mahogany with blackend brass fittings the handle is Coriain the cross guard is blued steel and the pommel is blackened brass.
    The second is a Wilkinson sword I have had for over 55 years. My brother did write Wilkinson in the early 60's and got information from them on it's history. I am looking for the letter now.
     
    Old Dog, bannockburn, entropy and 5 others like this.
  4. hk940

    hk940 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    NC, USA
    I just found the letter from Wilkinson dated 12/28/62.The sword #5038x was sold to R.L. Dumville on 1/03/1916. It is a Grenadiers Guard sword with battle Honours.
    No other info available
     
    bannockburn, Slamfire, Gordon and 8 others like this.
  5. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    23,608
    Location:
    Atlanta
    That is super neat!
     
    Gordon likes this.
  6. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,083
    Location:
    In the Wild Horse Desert of Texas
    JShirley likes this.
  7. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    23,608
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I've actually seen those bayonets, and thought they'd be neat with the right handle. I don't often "gush" about knives, but I love it!

    How deep into the handle does the tang go?
     
  8. hk940

    hk940 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    NC, USA
    It goes in about 2+", the cross guard goes right thru the blade at the small hole used to secure it in the rifle.
     
  9. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    23,608
    Location:
    Atlanta
    That should be plenty strong. Have you considered making more?
     
  10. hk940

    hk940 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    NC, USA
    I haven't been able to find one of those bayonets since (I made this about 15 years ago). it's rare to find one by itself.
     
  11. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    23,608
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Yeah, that's a shame. I remember when they were pretty cheap.
     
  12. hk940

    hk940 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    NC, USA
    I think the last one I saw for sale alone was north of $50.00.
    This is a display piece so strength is not an issue, I don't think I will be doing any cloak and dagger work soon.
     
  13. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    62,788
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    [​IMG]

    These should be delivered this week.
     
  14. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    23,608
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I like the one on the left.
     
  15. sgt127

    sgt127 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,757
    The Katana is around 350 years old. I used it in Ken Jitsu and Iaido.

    The rest, my dad brought back from WWII.

    F239223A-5B1B-4D63-8473-46885752413A.jpeg 16F2D21E-A0F5-4E03-BEEC-EE15280734F7.jpeg 7506D654-134F-4C83-A7A7-AD8EC4C6A752.jpeg 194E5514-654D-4800-9A90-5F0DFC0AE743.jpeg C7BBDF3B-BAE8-468B-9A0A-72497969FC52.jpeg C8C343BC-4026-458A-9786-CAC925C41C33.jpeg 9F567433-5ADE-4AB2-97E0-8199A1A7FC45.jpeg 80B3D4A1-3405-45F4-B305-3205C6D20089.jpeg 2CF57F3C-9C19-41B7-91E3-42FB3DBC5E31.jpeg
     
    Old Dog, bannockburn, Gordon and 8 others like this.
  16. kBob

    kBob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    6,409
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    Just ran across a pair of the Swiss AMT bayonets this weekend…. probably messed up not buying at least one at $60.

    Older guy with unrecognizable European accent (older than my 68 years) had several European military swords on his table I have not seen here and my phone was near dead. Sorry.

    -kBob
     
  17. tark

    tark Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    4,316
    Location:
    atkinson, ill
    I've got an old Cavalry saber. I believe it is an Ames Mfg. Co. 1860 model. It is in fairly good shape. I do not have the scabbard. The Gladius is a home made decorative piece of junk. I am pretty sure mine is a 1860 model because it is identical to the one I am holding in the picture, which has been identified as a 1860 model. It belonged to Gen. John Buford, one of the hero's of Gettysburg. It is inscribed with the words "Maj. Gen. John Buford." Which is interesting, because Buford was a Brig. General at the time of the battle. He was promoted on his death bead. He was a Major General for about four hours. I asked the Museum director if the sword was real. Indeed it is. The inscription was added after his death.

    The saber will be on display again, after the Museum re-opens, hopefully in the spring of next year.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. kBob

    kBob Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    6,409
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    05EB5FEA-CFAC-4EA6-A461-9512E102F792.jpeg 87806AA8-F1CD-451E-A042-0E63224C416E.jpeg
    Before someone screams “Hey, kBob, no wall hangers!” Let me say this is not a wall hanger. This is the same model of this sword ordered from the same supplier as swords actually in use… by the three drum majors of UCF’s Marching Knights Band. This past year the two assistants actually fought “duels” with them in the Bounce House at home games.

    My daughter felt the need for one and spent her own money on this one, which is admittedly only an hour after these pictures were taken …. hanging on the wall of her bedroom at home as she is home for summer.

    Got my home season tickets to see the sword fights.

    -kBob
     
    Old Dog and 1976B.L.Johns. like this.
  19. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,300
    I really like Albion's "Next Generation" swords. The top tier weapons of the line are the Viceroy (which cuts through space and time anywhere along the blade while being an excellent stabber) and the Principe. The Crecy is a great general purpose sword. However, if you can get only one, get the Viceroy (Type XXa).

    I have the Albion Castellan. I really like it for its history. The design was in the sheathes of knights all over Europe during the Hundred Years War.

    The top one is the Castellan. The bottom is their Ringeck.

    It was found in use from the early 1300's for over 200 years into the 16th Century. Its triangular shape was made for heavy armored fighting. The knight would drive it with one hand and control it by placing his hand on the blade. The point would be worked into the gaps in the armor. The triangular shape would be used to penetrate the rings of maille, padding and flesh. Three inches is that that was needed to kill a man. It can cut but is mediocre at best. The triangular blade lacks the body for good cutting near the point. The result is that the user must strike the target almost in the center of the blade (the center differentiates the two parts of the blade: "strong", which is the half closer to the cross, and the "weak", which is the half toward the point.) The problem with this is that the user has to get closer to the target. Many swords are built for cutting with the last few inches of the blade, but not this one. It is very fast in the hand and the "fish tail" pommel locks in the hand.

    Keep in mind these designs changed over time in response to changes in armor and fighting techniques. All of them; however, work great for stabbing your enemies through the face and the point coming out the back of their head or neck.

    I dislike the Ringeck. It is very "whippy" and swings weird until you get used to it. It's more of a general purpose sword that can be used for armored and unarmored fighting.

    IMG_0128.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  20. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,300
    Here is some guy showing the proportions of the Principe. A friend of mine uses his in cutting competition and he says it's like cheating. Though it looks heavy, it is not. It is nimble in the hand and the wide blade gives it some interesting cutting attributes. The ancient masters knew what they were doing when they designed this sword.

    One trick to improve your cutting with any European sword is to wire wrap the bottom half of the hilt. It locks your hand in. This feature is expensive and adds to the price, but it's like adding night sights to your EDC.

    upload_2022-6-28_23-46-49.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  21. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,300
    "Katana vs European sword" is the sword nerd's equivalent of 9mm vs 45 ACP. They always argue back and forth about which was better. Such arguments are pointless since both types of swords were developed in the context of their respective types of warfare against armor designed at the time.

    If you just look at the katana, it loses half the techniques available to double edged blades. This probably doesn't matter in the course of use by an expert swordsman. Japanese swordsmen treated their swords very differently due to the low quality of materials. This is borderline religious reverence. Conversely, in Europe where iron and steel were common, a sword of war was treated as a tool to be used up unless it had some sort of sentimental value. You'll see this reflected in techniques; the Japanese never met edge to edge while the techniques of Fiore, Liechtenaur, etc, including "winding" which would notch the edges. But, this gives the wielder access to techniques to control the opponent's sword while stabbing.

    Targeting is very interesting with the katana. Since its curved shape makes it an amazing cutter, targeting seems to be more oriented toward that. Obviously, stabbing does occur as the katana has a point. But the martial arts side of it targeted eyes, palms of the hands, leather straps on the armor, arm pits, inside the elbow and so forth. I noticed the targets are very small and require precision to hit.

    Contrast with Europeans: they take the fighting in close with a hand on the blade for control and a hand on the hilt for power. Perhaps JSA did this too; it's very hard on the sword. The techniques are very interesting and I'm sure there's overlap in the Japanese Sword Arts (after all, everyone has the same body more-or-less so the techniques will revolve around that). I've never witnessed a demonstration of JSA sword fighting in armor, but both styles will have Ju-Jitsu like moves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
    bannockburn and theotherwaldo like this.
  22. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    8,888
    Location:
    on Puget Sound
    I started my love of swords when watching Zorro as a boy, then the old cavalry westerns and Errol Flynn/Basil Rathbone pirate and Robin Hood movies with Dad.

    First sword I ever got, Grandma bought me in an Army-Navy Surplus store in Detroit when I was about nine or ten -- a real 1860 cavalry saber, in fine condition. I was the hero of my neighborhood for quite a while.

    In college I fenced a bit. I love the rapier. My Cold Steel colichemarde reproduction is a pretty worthy sword (in my opinion). Being former Navy, I have a couple real naval cutlasses. Got a few wall-hangers, but a couple can be used, if need be, for real should someone break into the wrong rec room...

    I'll have to take some pictures. Only sword pic I have for now:
    pirate gun.jpg
     
  23. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,083
    Location:
    In the Wild Horse Desert of Texas
    Japan was so metal-poor that they would confiscate any foreign ships that they could and then burn them for the metals within.
    That was the favored source for Japanese weapon steel.
    Not coincidentally, Japanese armor almost never contained any significant amount of metal.
    This greatly influenced the efficacy of Japanese bladed weapons... .
     
    Old Dog likes this.
  24. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    23,608
    Location:
    Atlanta
    And adds techniques available to single-edged blades. This is a reason I prefer single-edged fighting blades: they're more versatile. Tom, you discuss how European knights would place a hand on the blade to guide it, without apparently considering how the spine can be used to guide a very sharp single-edged sword.

    This in no way is meant to invalidate your observations about steel quality.

    John
     
    Old Dog likes this.
  25. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    23,608
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I love Japanese swords, but when people attempt to use the multiple forging folds as though they are important when starting with good modern steel blanks, I just laugh. If I had a time machine, I would love to travel back 600 years, and trade 100 lbs of 5160 for a handful of good Japanese swords. Everyone would be happy...
     
    Old Dog and entropy like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice