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Tactical crap not so crappy?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Persuader12, Sep 8, 2013.

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  1. Persuader12

    Persuader12 Member

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    I'm always reading posts where people say not to load up your shotgun with a bunch of tactical crap and just leave it bare bones, and that all that other stuff just adds extra weight. But I contend that many of these items have legitimate purpose if people know what their purpose is. Hint: Looking cool is not one of them.

    Sidesaddle: For quick port reloads after your magazine has run empty. That's why it's in close proximity to the port, and also to the main loading area. With a shotgun's limited capacity, having extra rounds that can be loaded quickly is very important.

    Light: Don't want to shoot your 6 year old (or want to wait until he's a teenager)? Light is good in the dark, and it's pretty hard to hold a seperate light while using a shotgun. Having one attached to your gun is much better. Use a momentary one so it's not on all the time giving away your position to an intruder.

    These are 2 that are easiest for me to justify. Watching the "Art of the Dynamic Shotgun" trailer on youtube, you'll see that the trainers have all kinds of stuff on their shotguns, and those guys are masters at what they do. They'd be the last people to put stuff on their guns to look cool.

    Some people will put the above mentioned attachments and much more on their guns to make them look intimidating, without any idea about how to use them to much effect, in which case looking cool is about all the effect they'll get.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  2. sappyg

    sappyg Member

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    OK.. So what's you're point?

    If I don't put these things on my sg am I some kind of a Neanderthal?

    To each his own but I'm not that artful or dynamic so I'm fine with my simple 00 buck in a run of the mill magazine on my simple run of the mill shotgun.

    Zombie much?
     
  3. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    No kids at home, enough ambient light from both inside and outside the house - if I need more than 5 shots from a shotgun, I need an AR

    Do what you want, just don't end up like this guy:

    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
     
  4. Zardaia

    Zardaia Member

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    Missing the chainsaw on that AR . As for shotguns, do what you will short of actually degrading capabilities with too much crap. I can certainly see a light being good idea and maybe the extra saddle ammo...but like one said if u need more than 5 from a shotgun in HD, probably wishing for somthing more at that point.
     
  5. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    So we should load out pistols with only 5 rounds, or use 5 round hunting mags in our AR's?

    Just because if we need more than that we need something different???

    Personally I don't care if people think a cricket bat is all the protection they need. In my AR's I keep 30 round mags, in my XDm's 19 rounds, and in my HD shotgun 9 rounds.

    Pick what you want to use for HD, then rig it up the way you can use it best. Personally I want whatever gives me an edge, like a light for example.
     
  6. sappyg

    sappyg Member

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    I think you miss the point.
     
  7. YZ

    YZ member

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    A white light and a shellholder are entirely reasonable in a home defense sg. Things like lasers and night vision sights are perhaps too much.
     
  8. sappyg

    sappyg Member

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    Dude, If I need more than 5 rounds of 00 buck for my fully loaded sg I probably need a doctor more than I need a sidesaddle with more buckshot. Just sayin.

    Flashlights are great. Have quite a few but, I don't think I personally need one on my sg..... If it works for you then great. Have at it.
     
  9. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    Tactical is practical.

    If something gives you a practical advantage, then go for it. I don't tell people what they should and shouldn't have on their guns. I will, however, challenge a person to show me where the practicality lies in items such as PGO guns, or 3 feet of rail space on guns meant for defending the home.

    My HD 870 usually is in its basic configuration. I will put a light on it whenever I get around to buying one, but otherwise, it's essentially stock. 7 rounds of 00 buck is enough for the home (have a few rifles to turn to if that isn't), and 7 slugs are enough for out in the woods. I like my Mesa 6-rounder. It's one of the best out there, but the weight is more than I care to lug around in the woods, and I've never found myself needing the extra 6 rounds, so it rarely sits on the gun.
     
  10. redstategunnut

    redstategunnut Member

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    You need a light on a home defense gun only if you care who you shoot.
     
  11. Virginian

    Virginian Member

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    Tactical is not home defense in my opinion. I cannot fault all of you who want to dress out your shotguns. Times have changed. I still have a fast draw rig for my Colt.
    If I thought I needed anything other than any of my standard hunting guns for HD, with plugs, I think I would move. I don't need any light, plenty of ambient. If an intruder is really alert, the last sound they ever hear might be that soft snick of the safety coming off. If I go to court I only want there to be one witness; me.
     
  12. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    No one said that did we? Try understanding something called swing dynamics - an AR is aimed and the mag weight is fairly centralized as is a pistol. The shotgun puts that extended mag way out front putting a lot of weight near the muzzle which makes it much harder to swing and utilize.
     
  13. zhyla

    zhyla Member

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    "I saw it on a Magpul video" is not a good answer to "why is this stuff hanging off of your shotgun?"

    I'm w/ oneounce. I don't mind carrying some extra rounds on my gun but I've shot thru the local shotgun match to understand that reloading shotguns in stressful situations is error prone and slow. I'd rather not put a side saddle on it, it's just one more thing to snag on something.
     
  14. Persuader12

    Persuader12 Member

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    Correct. That's one reason I didn't make that statement. What I did say was, "Watching the "Art of the Dynamic Shotgun" trailer on youtube, you'll see that the trainers have all kinds of stuff on their shotguns, and those guys are masters at what they do. They'd be the last people to put stuff on their guns to look cool."
     
  15. Persuader12

    Persuader12 Member

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    Then have a doctor next to your bed instead of the ability to reload, if that's what you think is best. I think it's better to have what you actually need. Just sayin.
     
  16. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    They also have a vested interest in selling various firearm accessories and doo-dads, since, you know, they're in a Magpul video.
     
  17. Persuader12

    Persuader12 Member

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    But if you watch the videos and see how well these devices can be used effectively, and you learn to use them effectively yourself through training and practice, then they can be useful, and not just the "tactical crap" that so many people think they are. That's basically the point of this thread.
     
  18. YZ

    YZ member

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    Advertising is a huge industry because its practitioners have the skill to persuade you that you need stuff when you don't. Every single one of us probably has fallen for a "must have" ad one time or another. They don't lie, they just accentuate the positive. Being skeptical about gun ads is a healthy attitude.
     
  19. Kingcreek

    Kingcreek Member

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    I've been shooting shotguns for almost 50 years. I've shot many many thousands of rounds. I don't care what other folks think. I know I can shoot better without the any of the extra stuff mounted on my shotgun.
    I have an alarm, a large dog, and only my wife in the house. I don't need on board illumination or more rounds than the 5 in the tube. That will do for me and its never too far to the AR or a full size handgun.
    I also believe in your rights to pimp your guns up any way you want.
     
  20. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    My HD weapons all wear lights. To me it's not tactical, it's practical. If others don't feel that they need a light on their defensive guns then that is perfectly acceptable as well. It means that they thought about it, evaluated it as a possibility, and decided against it.

    I do not have a side saddle because my shotgun holds 9+1. However, they can be useful and are not in any way impractical. If you use one, good choice. If you don't, good choice.

    I do not have an optic on my defensive shotgun. To me those are leaning much more towards unnecessary than the two previously mentioned accessories.
     
  21. Double_J

    Double_J Member

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    I do not have a light on my shotgun right now due to the light bulb going out. I had it mounted for several years and had no problem with it. I also have an elastic butt-cuff with more ammo on the stock. That is as far as I will go for my HD shotgun. I also have a loaded pistol within reach, just in case the 10-11 shells from the shotgun fail to make the threat stop. I must also add that I live alone and have a clear line of fire throughout my house, otherwise I would have a slightly different setup.
     
  22. stressed

    stressed Member

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    I would recommend a small but bright surefire on a weapon, as it illuminates the threat, and can blind them which is an added bonus. Only downside is they may fire at the light if they are armed, which is why LEO's hold their flashlights high and out to left.

    That photoshopped M4 with the scope and spotlight minus all the other crap looks more like a poacher's kit then anything tacticool.
     
  23. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    If you need to see in low light then a light is a must. If you want to be able to reload or switch to a slug then a means of carrying that ammo is a must. A side saddle might well make more sense than other options, particularly for a HD gun.

    A lot of people that bemoan lights don't have the first idea about how to properly use one. I've never met a critique of a light that has any kind of low light training. Now there maybe an argument why one doesn't need one in particular circumstances but people that universally argue against them are not people who I would put much stock in.

    Purpose should dictate gear. Furthermore, gear is only useful if you know how to use it. I have a pretty simple test for anything I add to a gun these days. Does it better help me accomplish what that gun is built to do. If one goes and does a few shotgun classes and does some low light work it will become pretty obvious what constitutes a useful addition and what does not. As to what some random Joe on the internet thinks, who really cares. This is even more true when it is more likely than not that the random Joe probably never has received any training in defensive use of a shotgun.

    One last note about equipping a shotgun. People often fail to draw a line between a purely HD shotgun and what I would call a "fighting shotgun." A fighting shotgun will often have a broader role and may need additional capabilities than what might be called for in just a HD role. For example, shooting slugs might not be something that some people intend to do with their HD gun. If you have no plan to ever shoot a slug then learning slug transitions become less important as does having a means of carrying slugs, or a good sighting system for them. For a HD gun I don't know that having an aimpoint micro for example would be a HUGE advantage over a bead sight. For a broader fighting gun that might be called upon to make a 100 yard slug shot, I know that it is.

    Within HD there is something that seems to plague discussions on this board. That is that people seem to not be able to wrap their minds around the idea that not everyone's house, family, skill set, neighborhood, etc is just like theirs. These differences can be significant when choosing guns and gear for HD. Furthermore, people seem to often fall into the "my gun fight" fallacy. Larry Corriea wrote an article on this. The basic idea is that people get in their minds what a self defense shooting will be like and consist of and prepare for that and judge things against only that. In doing so the exclude other very plausible scenarios. I will include the text of his article in a separate post below.

    A few thoughts in response to some of the above:

    I suppose as long as the power never goes out that will work.

    Have you seen the video in question? Magpull doesn't make a side saddle. At the time the video was made they didn't even have a line of shotgun accessories. Travis and Chris use various modes of carrying ammo and although its been a while since I've seen it, I don't recall them pushing any one brand or even just one mode of carrying ammo in that video. In fact one of the pieces of equipment used was a "custom" two shell carrier that Travis had cobbled together for his 1100 if I recall correctly.

    In sum, identify the role of your weapon. Seek training in how to use that weapon. Identify specific needs and advantages that particular equipment might provide. Train more with the equipment selected and see if it provides added value or only added weight.
     
  24. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    The above mentioned artilce

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2013
  25. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Good post, and good points.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2013
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