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Tactical M1 carbine project

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by foudufoot, Sep 6, 2009.

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  1. foudufoot

    foudufoot Member

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    I bought this M1 carbine from a friend recently for $500. Inland receiver, Underwood barrel, Springfield Armory stock, replacement operating slide. Not a collectible. So I decided to convert it to a tactical home defense weapon. I thought I'd share this project with you.

    First choice was the stock. I opted for the Choate folding stock ($104 from Ultimak http://www.ultimak.com/CHM1CF.htm). You can get it for a few bucks cheaper elsewhere, but I also wanted their M6-B picatinny handguard rail ($93 http://www.ultimak.com/M6.htm) so I went with them. The action USGI Inland action fit right in as advertized, with no inletting or fuss. Sold the SA stock and hardware on GB for $80.

    I took it back out for a matt black enamel refinish (Brownells Baking enamel) to match the stock and provide additional concealement and corrosion resistance. I also had to replace the front band assembly with an old-style type 1A band without the bayonet lug from Fulton Armory (http://www.fulton-armory.com/MCarbParts.htm) for $24.95 plus shipping.

    This will allow me to mount an ATN J125W tactical flashlight (http://www.atncorp.com/units/tacticalflashlights/weaponmountedflashlights/atnjavelin-j125w) under the barrel with a remote pressure switch attached to the stock. This leaves the Picattiny rail handguard free for a red dot sight by Bushnell (http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-airgun-sportsman-3-9x32-riflescope.html) for target acquisition.

    There has been considerable controversy about the M1 .30 cal ammo's stopping power. Here is a very good article discussing its merits and limitations (http://m1-carbine.com/m1_carbine_ammo.html). The way to look at it is that it is an intermediate round between a pistol round and a rifle round; superior to 9mm but inferior to any rifle round. It is similar to a 44 magnum round, which is a potent self defense and deer hunting round.

    So with a tactical M1 carbine with a 30 round magazine, you have a souped up pistol round with superior magazine capacity and long-range (150 meters) capability. You are also less likely to over-penetrate than with a .223 round. Recoil is also a lot more manageable than with a shotgun.

    All in all, it's a versatile option for home and car self defense that can handle almost any situation. I'd post pics if I knew how.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  2. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    This was shamelessly copied from OnTheFly's helpful Tech Support thread over at TFL.

    ************************************
    Uploading a picture from your computer:

    As long as the image you want to display fits the following restrictions...

    bmp 97.7 KB
    gif 97.7 KB
    jpeg 244.1 KB
    jpg 244.1 KB
    pdf 390.6 KB
    txt 170.9 KB

    ...then you can click the "Attachments" button () and upload the image. Use the "Browse" function to find the picture on your system. Press "Upload" after the picture file name is shown. Wait until the upload has completed, then close the Attachment window. Finally press the Submit button that is below the "Additional Options" box after all of your text and attachments are to your liking.

    If you want to display the attachment as an image in your post, or any subsequent post, you need to place the attachment URL between the IMG tags. Right click on the attachment (either picture or filename) and copy the entire URL of the attachment from the Properties window. Edit your post, and paste that URL between the IMG tags where you want it to appear in your post. Use the "Insert image" button as explained below. The line in your post will look like this:
    attachment.jpg

    You can also use the ATTACH tags if you don't necessarily want your attachment to show up as an image. Copy the numerical attachmentid from the URL of your picture, and paste it between the attach tags like this:
    View attachment 12345

    You can locate and review all of your attachments by clicking on "Attachments" in the Miscellaneous section in your "User CP" (upper left menu item at the top of every page).

    *****************************

    Using a picture from another internet site:

    In order to display a high res photo, you need to store the photo off site (i.e., www.photobucket.com) or just find a photo on another website you would like to display in your post. Then link to them in your post using the "Insert Image" () button. To use this button you just need to...

    1. Open the website where photo is displayed.
    2. Navigate to the image you would like to display in your post
    3. Right-click the desired image and select "Copy image location"
    4. While posting to TFL, click the "Insert Image" button ()
    5. Select or delete the entire text-box content (usually http://)
    6. Right click in the text box
    7. Select "Paste" from the menu
    8. Click "OK".
     
  3. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    The 5.56/223 will penetrate LESS than 30 carbine.

    For power the 30 is almost equal to full power 357 from 6-8" barrel.

    Most 110 357 factory loads are 60-70% loads.

    Check buffalo bore 357 loads.
     
  4. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    That said I think M1 carbine is good choice, better than a 9mm carbine though not as good as a 357 carbine or 5.56.

    I would use corbon ammo for the 30 myself.
     
  5. amd6547

    amd6547 Member

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    I use a stock Inland CMP carbine for HD. The CorBon load sounds good, but is ridiculously expensive. I use standard SP ammo.
     
  6. foudufoot

    foudufoot Member

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    "This was shamelessly copied from OnTheFly's helpful Tech Support thread over at TFL."

    Thanks for the warm welcome and accusation of plagiarism, Fireman. In case you didn't notice, I linked and made reference to every site I used. Sorry if I missed your favorite one. I think I'll post my pics elsewhere.

    I appreciate the comments and insights from the others.
     
  7. USSR

    USSR Member

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    This is my effort at bringing the M1 Carbine into the 21st century.

    Don

    M1A1a.jpg
     
  8. cane

    cane Member

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    foudufoot, I interpreted the comment to mean that he had copied the information on how to post pictures from the TFL. I think you owe "fireman" an apology.
     
  9. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    I think you owe the firearms community in general a apology for Bubbaing up that Carbine.

    Bubba is as Bubba does.
     
  10. Noveldoc

    Noveldoc Member

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    For what it is worth, a gunsmith friend crunched the numbers and said M1 carbine round is close to .41 mag. Hr recommends round nsoe soft points for close in work.

    Tom
     
  11. TDDude

    TDDude Member

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    Considering the number of deer I've taken with my now 65 year old M1 Carbine, I'd say that it is wholly adequate as a home defense weapon.

    It was my dad's "AR" when he was a Texas DPS officer and was my first deer rifle. I still take it out in the brush when I know I'll have short range shots.

    And yes, I had to take a double look at what Fireman said in his first post. Fireman should have said:
    "The following was shamelessly copied from........"

    The English language is such a pesky beast. :cuss::cuss:
     
  12. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    About right, it is close to a "hot" .41/.44Magnum...and nearly identical to a .357Magnum carbine which can easily take deer and smaller game at short range. I believe the .30Carbine to be nearly ideal for HD. I am not too big on bubba-fying a classic, but I think USSRs copy is pretty tasteful (and seemingly could be converted right back to original without any problems/gunsmithing). :)
     
  13. Jeremy2171

    Jeremy2171 Member

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    I have plans to so the same thing...just been really busy. I already have the Choate stock and have added a rail underneath for my Surefire combo grip/flashlight. I already have an EOtech 552 set aside for this and I only lack the Ultimak top rail and actual assembly of the carbine to complete this. Should be a fun gun and good for CQB 3-gun matches as well....
     
  14. SharpsDressedMan

    SharpsDressedMan member

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    For thosethat like a full stock. Z-Point on an Ultimak, the rest is GI/CMP. ................................................[​IMG][/IMG]
     
  15. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I always thought the M-1 Carbine was pretty tactical just like it fought WWII and Korea.

    rc
     
  16. foudufoot

    foudufoot Member

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    Fireman, I DO owe you an apology.:eek: Thanks for the photo tips and again, I apologize for misreading your post. But Bwana John will have to wait for his. :p No permanent damage done to this war baby, which was a parts gun anyway. I'm still waiting for a 3-point tac sling, ATN J125W barrel-mounted flash light, and front band spring to complete the project, although I'm not enamored with the red dot sight. At 100 yards, it completely obscured the bullseye of an SR1 target. It's still possible to put most rounds in the black or just beyond, so I guess it's good enough for close quarters out to that distance.

    USSR and Sharpsdressed man, thanks for the pics. What sight do you have on yours Don?

    What's a good source for SP 30 cal M1 ammo? Everything seems ridiculously expensive these days. Cheapest ammo I could find for the carbine was around 40 cents a round!:eek:

    Thanks to all.:) Dan
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  17. Hummer1

    Hummer1 Member

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    Are you sure that carbine was not a collector item,The early carbines did not have a bayonet lug.
     
  18. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Bwana John,

    Not sure who you are talking to, but the Ultimak rail is a no-drill, easy-on, easy-off setup, and reverts to USGI condition in 5 minutes. No Bubba involved.

    foudufoot,

    That is the Eotech Model 512 sight. Just the thing for the close in shooting that the carbine excels at. You really have to reload for the carbine to be able to afford to shoot it much. I cast bullets for mine, and I can shoot it for as cheaper or cheaper than .22 rimfire.

    Don
     
  19. Orlando

    Orlando Member

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    I love the M1 Carbine but only in its original configuration. To each his own, glad to hear its not permanate
     
  20. foudufoot

    foudufoot Member

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    Hummer1/Orlando/Bwana: This one had the bayonet lug. See the original post. I'm as respectful of collectible milsurps as anyone. I thought I made that clear in the first paragraph. It's not like I chopped the barrel or D&T's the receiver for cryin'out loud! IT WAS A PARTS GUN.:rolleyes:

    Don: cast lead bullets in a semi-auto? No problems with feeding or fouling?

    It wasn't so long ago that 30 carbine ammo was pentiful and inexpensive. I hadn't been paying much attention as I was shooting mostly from my 6.5 Swede and 7.5 Swiss stash. I guess my 5 gallon bucket of brass must be worth something now.;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  21. DBR

    DBR Member

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    According to the tests I have seen the Remington 110gr SP is the ammo to get. Winchester HP would be second choice. If cost isn't an issue the Corbon DPX is the most accurate I have shot.

    I bought some Remington from Grafs a while ago. They take back orders.

    Polishing the feed ramp is a good idea if you are going to use SP ammo.

    Here's some other carbine info:
    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19956
     
  22. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    The stock is not for me, but that can be changed back as well (though I do like the paratroopers stock), the ultimak looks to be a great addition. :)
     
  23. carbine85

    carbine85 Member

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    I can sell you that flashlight for $85.00, new in the box with batteries. I have 2-3 left. I also have the larger model also. Let me know.
    knubel@zoomtown.com

    I have restored several Carbines and built one from left over parts. I think a tactical Carbine is a good choice. The .30 is a good round for hoe defense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  24. USSR

    USSR Member

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    No problems to date - barrel is lead free. Of course, I'm casting my bullets really hard.

    Don

    30carbinebullet.jpg
     
  25. Glamdring

    Glamdring Member

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    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=25836&highlight=30+carbine+357+magnum

    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=103
    Heavy 357 Magnum Ammo - 125 gr. J.H.C. (1,700fps/M.E. 802 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

    Our 357 mag. ammo adds more power than ever before to the 357 mag. This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver - this includes J frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo. Please don't phone us and ask if this ammo is safe in your gun. It is, providing your gun is in safe condition for use with any normal 357 ammo.

    We don't recommend this ammo to be fired in super light alloy revolvers as bullets may jump crimp under recoil, but the ammo itself wont hurt these super light weight revolvers. These revolvers are simply so light that the recoil is severe enough to cause crimp jump.

    The below velocities are offered so that you can see what guns/barrel lengths give what velocities with this new 357 mag. ammo. You'll notice that new S&W revolvers with short barrels are often shooting faster than older S&W revolvers with longer barrels. The new S&W revolvers are very good and are made with equipment that makes them more consistent and faster than the S&W revolvers of yesteryear.

    Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!

    1. 3 inch S&W J frame

    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

    2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps

    3. 5 inch S&W model 27

    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps

    4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100

    a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps

    5. 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!

    ***
    Edited to made more sense:
    Note specs for 357/125 from 6" barrel "4. 6 inch Ruger GP 100
    a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps"
    vs 30 carbine is generally 110@1990 +/- from 18" barrel IIRC If you keep barrel length the same you would have a 110 grain bullet in the M1 Carbine vs 170 or so grain bullet in the 357 carbine at about same MV.

    Note: I think the M1 Carbine is a GOOD choice with a good load. I would avoid ball ammo and stick to loads that expand for SD use.

    Only reason I don't own one is the price point, for the price I can get something more powerful that is still low recoil like SKS or Lever 357 Carbine.

    The M1 Carbine with folding stock makes for a easy to transport easy to shoot long gun, one real advantage it has over other similar platforms IMO.

    The M1 Carbine is one of the long guns I showed my SO for self defense. Along with AR, AK, SKS, leverguns, and 20 gauge pumps & autos.

    She chose a 20 gauge semi because she liked the fit, feel, and balance of it better than anything else in a long gun that was suited to home defense. It backs up her CCW Glocks.

    I urge people to pick something they like as long as it fits them and it is a reasonable choice for the job at hand.

    And I think whenever possible a long arm should be first choice for self defense. Exceptions mainly being if you can't legally have it with you or quarters are to close.

    IMO the M1 Carbine with correct loads is a very good choice. I was just trying to correct error of power of the 30 carbine vs 357 magnum.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
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