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Tactical Response Pics from Fighting and Advanced Fighting pistol 16-19sept.

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by possum, Sep 30, 2008.

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  1. possum

    possum Member

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    everyone loves pics, and so do I, so i thought i would share some pics with the forum here and try to get some people interested in training. If you have questions about anything you see here please ask and i will explain! most of these are of me, though the other students did sign a model release. anywayThanks and enjoy.
    me and a little weak hand action
    IMG_9641.jpg
    buddy team, man down drill, behind cover
    IMG_9644-1.jpg
    some positional shooting
    IMG_9622.jpg
    IMG_9576.jpg
     
  2. possum

    possum Member

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    and more pics!
    IMG_9548.jpg
    getting out of the rear naked choke
    IMG_0294.jpg
    hammer blows with the pistol
    IMG_0484-1.jpg
    engage his buddy until rds complete
    IMG_0485.jpg
    then ridge line strikes to the face
    IMG_0488.jpg
     
  3. possum

    possum Member

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    and more
    getting choked
    IMG_0793.jpg
    the dizzy drill
    IMG_0757.jpg
    and shooting while getting puched
    IMG_0815.jpg
     
  4. MDMadrid

    MDMadrid Member

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    Why are you shooting between your legs and with the pistol upside down?
     
  5. possum

    possum Member

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    to show the student that it makes no difference what position you are in, what you are using, ie your pinky an ink pen etc to pull the trigger as long as the fundamentals are applied you will shoot fine.
     
  6. possum

    possum Member

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    oops i forgot one, and yes this look wierd and something that i don't od on a regular basis, actually never, but i was able to achieve 100% hits in the heart box with the 2 guns.(glock 23 and sa xd .40)
    IMG_0746.jpg
     
  7. Corporal K

    Corporal K member

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    Man, I hate to seem like a jerk, but this looks like a supreme waste of money. It looks like a festival of wannabes.

    But if you got something out of it, good for you.
     
  8. WNC Seabee

    WNC Seabee Member

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    Not having been there, about the only thing I see remotely useful in that set of pics is the "positional" shooting while lying on your side.
     
  9. gotime242

    gotime242 Member

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    I agree with Corporal K.

    Ridiculous.

    Edit: AND looks like an accident waiting to happen.
     
  10. Six Feet Under

    Six Feet Under Member

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    Or if you're getting the crap knocked out of you by two different guys and one pulls a weapon on you and you have to shoot him...

    Seems like some of you guys should ask some questions before you start making generalizations on what is happening in people's training pictures.

    Gunfights don't just happen in an isosceles stance.
     
  11. gastong30

    gastong30 Member

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    While every picture tells a story, they don't neccissarily tell the whole story.

    I met up and worked with some TR alums on drawing from the ground and shooting while grounded. We also worked on some shooting from extension to compression drills, and the dogpile drill. We had a great time training and learning some new skills.
     
  12. Norinco982lover

    Norinco982lover Member

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    I agree this looks like mall ninja stuff:(
     
  13. BBQLS1

    BBQLS1 Member

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    The negative responses have kind of thrown me back a bit.

    I have yet to attend any type of practical shooting training, but I've been reading about it. IMO there is a good deal of useful stuff that goes on at these events. I'm starting to think I should attend one of these to ensure I become more cognizant of the types of scenarios one may really encounter while CC.

    It's kind of sad that some people take this as "He looks silly, I don't want to look silly like that."
     
  14. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    A lot of people think of these things as "shooting classes" and they are not.

    They are "fighting classes".

    Most folks giving the negative comments don't understand the difference. Don't worry about them.

    Would they say that Massad Ayoob injecting shooters with adrenaline to simulate the fight or flight response is "mall ninja"?
     
  15. Soldiersurfs

    Soldiersurfs Member

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    I think the skills developed might be usefull as far as muscle memory and that stuff goes. But the training itself looked unsafe....... And yes borderline mall ninja , not the op himself just the training. I think the training was geared more toward participant fun then actual skills
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
  16. Erik

    Erik Member

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    I don't have a horse in this race but to second TexasRifleman's post. ,

    Given context (some already explained), most of the posted photos shouldn't raise eyebrows. OK, the Matrix shot serves no purpose except to invite criticism. Maybe another or two. I said "most." ;)

    But I've been spun, dragged, hit, wrestled, ran, exercised, carried, etc on ranges in the name of learning what I can perform when I have to, and am better prepared for the experiences.
     
  17. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    muscle memory requires upwards of 3000 repetitions. thats why martial artists practice for years. train till your actions are instinctive. if your thinking about your next move, chances are you are behind the curve and are re-acting rather than acting. as for "fighting classes" about all i can gleam from these snapshots of a 4 day event is--be flexible. safety wise--2 of these pics just plain scare me....especially shooting past a comrade. at the very least move your muzzle beyond him towards the threat. if it happens that he flails his arm--you a gonna shoot him. there is more to say but since it ain't high road, i'll pass. a tip of my hat to the photoshoppers.
     
  18. possum

    possum Member

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    to the nay sayers i say this go to a Tactical response training course and then lets see what you have to say about it. I have trained at TDI Ohio, Tactical Response, Blackwater USA, and with members of the AMU, and this was the best "fight" school that i have ever been too, and i am glad that i was able to be a part of it.

    also be advised that the selection of pics are a small amount that were shot over the 4 days of training and most of them were in the advanced class. this is by no means all that was covered but you guys would know that if you read the aar's.

    If this is mall ninja stuff i hate to see what you guys that talk down about the pics do when you go to a training course, i would even be so bold as to wonder if you guys ever did attend a training course. I know for sure that you haven't been to a tactical response course. Seeing the pics are not enough to get the jist and the full understanding of what was going on, and why we were doing what we were doing. If the viewer dosen't know the context of the pics the 5 w's then you won't understand.

    You guys talk smack about the ones that go out of there way to be better shooters and fighters, and i am sure you are the same guys that i see giving me dirty looks at the range. I am sure that you guys are also the same ones that train in a 180 degree static range mentality, which is funny because the last time i checked we lived in a 360 degree world!

    james yeager the owner of tactical response offers a 100% money back guarantee if you are not happy with the class or what was taought. the instructers give every student the oppurtunity to step up and say that they won't there money back. what do you have to loose. and futhuremore, if you go over to www.getoffthex.com and say the same things you said here, i am sure that James would be so kind as to offer one of you a course for no charge just out of the kindness of your heart so you can see what you are missing and i gurantee you that you will be a believer after the training and i am sure that none of you would ask for your money back.

    it is funny that no body brought up any of this when i wrote the aar's for the courses, and i wanted to add pics to add to the experience for those of you that weren't there, or many of the shooters out there that aren't fortunate enough to get to do training.
     
  19. possum

    possum Member

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    gotime242,
    in your photoshop post with Angelina what is wrong with shooting weak hand, is that something you don't know how to do, something you don't practice, or just to "mall ninja" for you?

    continue to train in your square range marksmanship masturbation mentality, it dosen't bother me, in a fight for my life you won't be there anyway so it dosen't matter does it?
     
  20. Code3GT

    Code3GT Member

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    TexasRifleman, I've actually thought of doin the whole Epi injection as well to simulate the fight/flight effect! I've procured some "close enough to expiration" epinephrine (adrenaline) from work. i think it could be beneficial!
     
  21. ChrisVV

    ChrisVV Member

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    Mall ninja or not the most I have ever done with my pistol is stand there and shoot normal. It would be interesting to see what its like to shoot laying on my side, while being roughed up and choked out.

    why not?
     
  22. anythingshiny

    anythingshiny Member

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    I'm taking the Fighting Pistol course in Nov..looking forward to learning something new and maybe even having fun.

    I think the OP pix are fine...just because you don't shoot backwards upside down between your legs...and you KNOW da%m good and well that you have always wanted to go all john woo with 2 pistols and dump the entire mag downrange!
     
  23. jrhines

    jrhines Member

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    You are no better than your last training session...

    and when the Vigaro hits the mix master you will not rise to the occasion, you will regress to your level of training. If you haven't shot weak hand or with a pistol prone on the ground or a dozen other "mall ninja" positions then there is much to do...
     
  24. 45Guy

    45Guy Member

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    If practicing shooting weak hand, in awkward positions or out of your comfort level is "mall ninja" then that must mean that LEO's, all those intial agencies and all the SF guys that everyone says are the best must be mall ninjas too.

    I'm none of those, but I do practice shooting one-handed, weak and strong, reloading one-handed, shooting from odd positions and moving when possible. It's not "mall ninja" to practice what could possibly happen in a gunfight. If I got shot in my strong shoulder, I'd want to be able to continue to fight after that, and I want to have as much practice as possible beforehand, not on-the-job training.

    I hope someday I can afford a training course like this, and get as much quality training as it seems possum has.

    To possum, ignore them, they know not about what they comment.

    To the nay-sayers, go back to arfcom.
     
  25. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot Member

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    Some of the responses in this thread are clear examples of why THR is not a place where training can be discussed.
     
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