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Tactical Response's Carbine AAR & PICS

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Zak Smith, Sep 23, 2005.

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  1. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Tactical Response Inc's Tactical Rifle, Sept 17-18, Colorado

    mDSC01440.jpg

    Tactical Response had two days of Tactical Rifle training Sat-Sun in Pueblo CO. This class was designed to be an introduction to fighting with a carbine and pistol as backup.

    Much like the Tac Pistol class, we started with close-range drills to get the fundamentals down, including stance, sight picture, close-range trajectory, pistol technique, carbine to pistol transitions, and the different types of reloads for the rifle-- speed, tactical, and emergency. We covered shooting from behind cover in-depth, doing strong and weak-side prone, kneeling, and standing from both sides of the barricades. Movement and cover while reloading or transitioning was emphasized.

    For the guys that didn't have a good zero, or had never shot beyond 25 yards, we moved back to the 100 yard line to make sure everyone was squared away.

    Finally- we got to some fun stuff: team drills and movement behind cover. In this section, the goal of a two-man team was to stay behind cover and keep one carbine running - shooting at the target - at all times. This meant the shooter and partner had to communicate when they were ready to shoot again, when they were getting low, when they were out or malfed ("COVER!"), and watching six.

    When this was no longer an embarrassment, we moved to a drill where two, two-man teams advanced between cover points with one team providing rounds on target while the other team was advancing. This required the "watch six" guy to communicate with the other team to facilitate safe movement, and with his partner to tell him when to move. And throughout the whole thing, someone had to be delivering rounds on target at all times.

    This drill evolved to two 4-man teams where the goal was to keep two carbines shooting at all times. Finally, this evolved to two 8-man teams advancing and retreating under cover, keeping at least two carbines firing at all times. At this point, the situation was made much more challenging by having one or multiple shooters designated as "WOUNDED" halfway through the scenario. The goal of the remaining team was to drag the wounded guys back to safety, while maintaining cover and keeping the guns shooting on target. Dragging guys back to cover is NOT easy, especially while you're carrying a bunch of gear and a hot carbine.

    The whole team section was by far the most challenging part of the class.

    This class gave the students the basic skills needed to operate a carbine and transition to handgun effectively. It went one step further by demonstrating some team tactics and emphasizing communication.

    (Thanks Mike Aos and Dan Durda for the pics.)

    mDSC01442.jpg

    Round count in this course was high. The published numbers were 1000 rifle and 250 pistol. When I worked out how many rounds I shot during the class based on how many I came home with, my actual rifle round count was approx 1800 rounds.

    Having a rifle that runs reliably is important. Most of the rifles I saw there were of the 16" or M4 pattern. Most of the rifles on my "end" of the line ran well, with only 1 rifle having persistent problems.

    I shot a 16" Rock River stainless barrel with 223 Wylde chamber, lightened vs. the stock profile, A2 FH. Larue 9.0, JP SS bolt carrier. Magpul M93B stock. JP 4# trigger, Aimpoint M2. My gun rifle ran well the entire class, with only a couple malfs on the final multiple-mag dump "drill."

    A100_0469_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
     
  2. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I did not clean my rifle the entire weekend. Before the class, I had wiped down the outside of the bolt carrier with a paper towel. The only maintenance I did was to add lube after the first day, and at lunch both days.

    After 1800 rounds:
    A100_0470_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    A100_0474_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    A100_0475_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]

    This should show that a decent AR15 even with a SS barrel can run reliably for thousands of rounds without cleaning.
     
  3. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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  4. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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  5. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    What's the difference between ".223 Wylde" and other .223/5.56mm chambers? A quick google search-and-click didn't turn up anything useful.

    ~Slam_Fire
     
  6. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    http://www.jprifles.com/Barrels.html
    Without getting into details and dimensions, think of 223 Wylde as a "match" chamber that can also shoot 5.56 NATO safely, without compromising reliabilty (much if any).
     
  7. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    During the man-down drills, I did "roll out" to start shooting once and noticd my Aimpoint was off (IE, it had been bumped or something - I never turned it off the whole class). Instead of messing with it, I stayed "in the fight" using the Aimpoint as a gross rear ring until I deployed the BUIS.
     
  8. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Photos from Richard Orf

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    "DOWN"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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  10. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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  11. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    Does my little eye spy an AK in that group picture. How did that dude do with all you high speed low drag AR dudes?

    No disrespect as I have both. You see fall into the if it goes bang everytime camp it is cool.

    Chris
     
  12. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    One other question, it seems as if somebody was shooting with a suppressor, why would you do this? Would this not just dirty the firearm quicker?
     
  13. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    The AK guy did fine, but he was on the other side of the "line" from me for many of the drills, so I didn't get to see much of its handling. Several operations are more difficult with the AK.

    The class is about skills and tactics and to some extent, it does not matter what gun you shoot as long as it does not get in the way of learning.

    The only rifles I saw which had persistent problems were (1) a AR15 "Franken-Gun" (ie, parts gun, mostly a DPMS upper), and (2) a demo POF AR15 piston upper.

    I shot my suppressor for a couple drills just for the heck of it, to see if it was feasible. The drawbacks are weight, length, and gas inhalation.

    -z
     
  14. Sir Lancelot

    Sir Lancelot Member

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    Great photos! What was the break down on Optics for the class?
     
  15. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Sighting system breakdown: almost evenly split between Aimpoints, EOTechs, and iron sights, with two ACOGs.

    -z
     
  16. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    gas inhalation?
     
  17. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    A suppressor causes more "back pressure", which in an autoloader means in part that much more gas gets blown back through the action. In an AR15, it also comes through the gas tube. The effect is exacerbated when shooting long strings and not moving, especially when there is no wind. See http://www.alansamuel.com/movies/sup1.mov
     
  18. agtman

    agtman Member

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    Just wanted to thank Zak Smith for the review and pics. I missed this when it was first posted back in Sept. Looks like it was great training, especially the team drills.
     
  19. trickyasafox

    trickyasafox Member

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    very very cool stuff
     
  20. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Dave? DAVE?!? Clear your calendar the last week in May... ;)

    - Chris
     
  21. USMC03

    USMC03 Member

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  22. Srigs

    Srigs Member

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    Looks like a great time!

    I love to find this for some of us 308 shooters... :evil:
     
  23. second

    second Member

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    just found this thread through google, looks like you guys had a blast!
    thanks for all the pics
     
  24. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Zak, you mean an AR can go 1800 rounds without being cleaned!:eek: Why I've read on THR that the AR, since it ***** where it eats:rolleyes:, cannot go 100 rounds without being cleaned.;) It just can't be!

    Thanks for the pics. Good to see training.:)

    cs, suppressors have a very high CDI factor, are cool for the pre-class fashion show, and are handy for night shoots (depending on the ammo you bring), but less than optimal for a class where one shoots a lot.

    Srigs, I've been to many Mall Ninja Paper classes where guys bring .308s, M14 EBRs or FALs. I do not think that TR mandates a .223???
     
  25. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Yep, nothing wrong with the AR-15. It runs and it is not the operation/ergonomic disaster some other rifles are.

    This thread is anceient, but here some pictures from the 2006 class. This time around, I ran my 12.0" Noveske SBR, which ended the class with about 4000 rounds throuh it, 50% with the can, minimal cleaning. Ran 100%.
    B100_2875_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]

    B100_2781_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    B100_2791_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    B100_2825_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    B100_2857_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    B100_2901_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    B100_2968_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
    B100_3160_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
     
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