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Talk me out of a PTR 91 KF

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Monkeybear, Mar 16, 2008.

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  1. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    So my tax return got delayed. Everything I had planned to use the money for has been taken care of and thus I am left with about $1100 to spend on gunnery.

    I have been looking around and one gun that has really taken my fancy is the PTR 91 KF. I really like the looks and the one I handled shouldered just fine. Any way it just seems like a really cool rifle to me and I plan on getting one from Atlantic Firearms. In the end I just want a cool gun. I don't really have any particular need for another rifle.

    So what do you guys think? Any reason not to buy a PTR 91? If you are going tell me to get something else instead keep in mind that I prefer handy guns; small, light and fast. The only exception I would make would be for one of these.
     
  2. stubbicatt

    stubbicatt Member

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    It is hard for me to talk you out of one of these excellent rifles. Mine is the regular version, which I have "spiced up" some with accessories, a trigger job, and a scope etc...

    When you get yours, first thing you need to find is a port buffer, if you intend to reload for it.

    I'd say to go for it. Heck, magazines are nearly free these days at something like $2 apiece.
     
  3. tallpaul

    tallpaul Member

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    I like my ptr ... The only reason I could use to talk ya out of it are the ammo costs. I need ta send my trigger group out for a williams trigger job but short of that it shoots well so far. It was bad- I bought 120 mags before I had the gun :D so I had ta get one. I had wanted a HK back before they got around to being out of sight. I thought the trouble would be gettin pistols. I never saw the assault ban and the insane pricing coming the first time. 50.00 magazines etc kept me from the hk's when I was looking. I would like to take her pig hunting sometime - or deer.
     
  4. iamkris

    iamkris Member

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    The first question I'd ask when someone says "talk me out of a gun is"....."WHY? YOU LIKE IT, YOU BUY IT".

    That said, I would ask if you are considering the HK platform...have you ever fired one? I've owned 2 and still own a PTR91 (and a CETME). PTRs are best of breed but the only reason I'll keep it is to have an example of this pattern.

    6hfdicn.jpg

    Here's what's wrong with the HK pattern rifle in my opinion:

    • Triggers typically suck...not just a little but a LOT...they make stock AR triggers seem good (that can be remedied, however with some $$ to a gunsmith)
    • Ergonomics are really poor for a lot of people - safety selector is difficult to reach and there aren't any aftermarket replacements
    • Cocking handle is WAY out near the end of the barrel...poor placement
    • Recoil can be more harsh than other 308s...take a look at the massive bolt/carrier assembly...that thing slams back at you each time you fire
    • No bolt hold open...what was HK thinking?
    • Mag release is difficult to manipulate -- again, this can be fixed with $$ for a paddle mag release

    They are, of course, rugged, reliable and reasonably accurate.

    Personnally, in the small, light, handy MBR category, I'd recommend a FAL Para or a M1A Scout.

    6gl6hs7.jpg

    [​IMG]
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Everything iamkris says is correct but I can't talk you out of one, especially when CDNN has them for $899.

    That's a steal..... Must have :)

    Stubb if you know someone that has these in stock let us know please. I've been on the hunt for one for a while now and everyone is out.
     
  6. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Member

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    Great rifle with super cheap mags now. Hard to beat if you want a .308 battle rifle.
     
  7. Lanyard

    Lanyard Member

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    Bolt Hold Open

    I have always found it telling that 2 countries with long and painful experiences with land warfare decided NOT to use a bolt hold open.
     
  8. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    Man I used to love the looks of G3 type rifles until I started to learn more about them and handling them. Already been answered.

    -awful trigger
    -dumbest place for charging handle. A little tough to pull as well.
    -selector switch too far from my thumb.
    -button mag release WAY too far away, $1100 and no paddle release? :barf:

    I really believe they were designed for a gorilla/ET hybrid species that don't even exist yet.

    But if you really want it, then you probably should get it. But since you want us to talk you out of it, then how about a quality FAL for the same price as the PTR91KF or less? Mags can still be found for less then $10 btw.
     
  9. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    I'll second the "shoot it first and see if you still like it" idea. A lot of my gripes with the gun have been brought up already, except one.

    See that quick swoop down from the receiver that the stock makes? When looking through the sights, a lot of people's faces end up nestled right behind it. Feels comfortable just holding it, but as soon as you start shooting it the rifle literally starts punching you in the face. The recoil is a little stouter than most .308s, so you'll walk away after a couple mags with a sore cheek bone. If the gun doesn't fit you that way and you can deal with the other aforementioned issues, go for it.
     
  10. HK G3

    HK G3 Member

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    The only reason that I can give not to buy one is the fact that .308 is oppressively expensive at the moment.

    And when you have this gun, you WILL want to shoot it. A lot.
     
  11. chauncey

    chauncey Member

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    two thoughts:

    1) you might want to get a PTR-91F, with an 18" barrel. the conventional wisdom is that you lose a lot of 308 velocity when you drop below 18"

    2) the only real problem I have with the rolling block design is that it's a p.i.t.a. to dissassemble and clean. if you think an AR is a pain, you have no idea.

    I think the HK design vs. the FAL design just comes down to which you like better (M14 also), and what you want to use it for. I don't think there is any clear "winner" between these three. the only other weapon in your price range you should seriously consider is the stg58c from DSA. the ones I've seen look brand new, and run just under $1100.
     
  12. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

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    My only comment is nonetheless a game-winner. You could get a FAL instead.
     
  13. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    They are brand new. Well, if you order them from DSA, anyway. And if you order direct from DSA (You have to get your FFL to call them and add them to his "approved to order" list) they give you dealer pricing, not the MSRP listed on their site. The dealer price on the SA58 I ordered from them was about 350 under MSRP.

    ETA: I got the Para Tactical Carbine shown at the bottom of iamkris's post. Great shooter, highly recommended.
     
  14. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    I like the PTR 91, it may not have the best ergos, but it is a well built. Its also a lot of fun to shoot.
     
  15. HM2PAC

    HM2PAC Member

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    I personally like the G3 design.

    Evil Monkey brought up the main reasons people don't like the weapon:
    1. The trigger is built heavy intentionally. It can be changed.
    2. The charging handle is operational with the left hand WITHOUT bringing the weapon off of the shoulder. As far as it being hard to pull, try it yourself.
    3. Selector switch is too far away.
    4. Original design was a paddle release. New laws prohibit it on the new rifles. Older "Pre-Ban" rifles may have the paddle installed.

    If you get one of these, I would urge you to get the 18"Bbl. Cutting it shorter definitely affects the .308Win ballistics. The short rifles may not be compatible with old parts if you ever need to swap something out.
     
  16. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    Hmmm....

    Thanks for all the insight guys.

    I did consider a FAL. Actually I would not mind having a FAL at all but I have always wanted a HK style rifle and a .308 battle rifle. This seems to be both. Since there dose not seem to be any major deal breakers I feel pretty set on this rifle. I am still open to opinions though.
     
  17. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    If your heart is still set on this rifle then get it. It's all about having fun with your hobby right?
     
  18. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Member

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    Don't buy it for yourself, buy it for me. :)

    It's a really cool rifle IMO, you should definately check out hkpro if you want to customize it in any way. There are magazine release upgrades and Magpul sells a MSG3 stock. Nice.
     
  19. chauncey

    chauncey Member

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    not, by any means, a poor choice.
     
  20. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    The PTRs are good stuff. I just wish they wouldn't use that stupid heavy barrel. The design is a tad forward heavy to start with and that unbalances things, IMO.

    As for the design, I've never had a problem with the charging handle. It's a little farther forward than is really optimal but it's no big deal. The trigger does suck, which can be fixed. The selector switch is hard to reach, which can also be fixed. The only thing I really miss is a bolt hold open feature. It does make the design ever simpler though.
     
  21. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    1. Recoil - The recoil combined with a fairly short length of pull make it a little difficult to handle for someone like me. I finally got a stock extension from another member to give me a couple more inches of length. As long as I keep it firm to my shoulder, it is okay now. My M1A has a much much smoother recoil.

    2. Brass - the ejection tends to dent the brass like an AK or SKS. It is normally not too bad, but some people don't like it.
     
  22. iamkris

    iamkris Member

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    Feanaro

    Does that Navy grip put the hand in a more forward position? Is that the trick?
     
  23. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Member

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    The worst thing I hear is that the trigger ain't great. I have pulled more than a few triggers others called horrid that felt just fine to me. I think it is a combination of having really strong fingers, a preference for DA revolvers and not being much of a rifle shot.
     
  24. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    The Navy-esque grip is thinner front to back, placing the hand closer to the safety selector. Can't guarantee it will work for you but that's the idea.
     
  25. Richard.Howe

    Richard.Howe Member

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    I can't talk you out of it -- just got my 91K in, and it's extremely well-put-together. Much better than I expected.
     
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