You really must work on your reading comprehension... If you look on the first page of this thread you will see where I said "I HAD a Judge". It's build quality was not impressive, it had reliability problems, and it was not terribly useful with mediocre .45 colt accuracy and too large/ low density shot patterns from .410. Due to all of this I got rid of it after the novelty wore off. Don't get defensive if this isn't what you want to hear. If you like your Judge, great! Many other Judge owners echo my experiences.
Taurus .410/45LC owners...
- Thread starter mopar92
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You really must work on your reading comprehension... If you look on the first page of this thread you will see where I said "I HAD a Judge". It's build quality was not impressive, it had reliability problems, and it was not terribly useful with mediocre .45 colt accuracy and too large/ low density shot patterns from .410. Due to all of this I got rid of it after the novelty wore off. Don't get defensive if this isn't what you want to hear. If you like your Judge, great! Many other Judge owners echo my experiences.
weregunner
Member
Show us the hard core data that "many Judge owners echo my experiences. Back it up time.
I can bring 17 pages of links from the happy and satisfied Judge owners.
Yes, there are a few dogs, but not that many and 1 bad example if it happened does not broad brush stroke an entire brand,make,or model as is being done here.
No, I have no need for a Judge, but for those who do need or just want one , it is up to them. They don't need any other reason than for fun or for serious needs.
It's what the owner gets out of the gun for himself and nothing else matters.
I can bring 17 pages of links from the happy and satisfied Judge owners.
Yes, there are a few dogs, but not that many and 1 bad example if it happened does not broad brush stroke an entire brand,make,or model as is being done here.
No, I have no need for a Judge, but for those who do need or just want one , it is up to them. They don't need any other reason than for fun or for serious needs.
It's what the owner gets out of the gun for himself and nothing else matters.
You are perfectly capable of using the search feature on this board or google to find a number of people mentioning issues. I never claimed that every single Judge was a piece of crap, I merely relayed my experience with it and the reasons I chose to get rid of it. Just as others are welcome to buy a judge just because they enjoy shooting it, I am welcome to express the reasons why the novelty of it wore off for me. Even without the quality/reliability issues that I experienced, I would have gotten rid of it for the other reasons mentioned. This doesn't mean I'm trying to tell anybody else that they aren't allowed to own one, but I am entitled to share my own experience.
halfmoonclip
Member
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- Feb 4, 2011
- Messages
- 2,760
Taurus needs to decide if the Judge is a .45 Colt revolver that can shoot .410s in a pinch, or vice-versa. If shooting .410s is its main role, then it's time for Taurus to re-think some things. The biggest problem is too much spread of the shot; it makes for a 10' maximum effective range with shot, and even buck spreads too much at 50'. At that range, shooting at a silhouette on lane 1 next to the wall, one of my shots brushed the wall. I can shoot better than that, honest.
The fix, IMHO, is in the rifling. Obviously they can't smoothbore it for legal reasons, but how about straight rifling, or at least a lot less twist? Would it be possible to jug-choke it, allowing some spread in the bore before choking it back down, but not so much as to cause pressure trouble with .45s or slugs? The accuracy with .45s is mediocre at best, so why not make the shot aspect work better? At this point, it appears that Taurus is selling all they can make, but when the pickings get thin, maybe they will indeed change things.
Moon
The fix, IMHO, is in the rifling. Obviously they can't smoothbore it for legal reasons, but how about straight rifling, or at least a lot less twist? Would it be possible to jug-choke it, allowing some spread in the bore before choking it back down, but not so much as to cause pressure trouble with .45s or slugs? The accuracy with .45s is mediocre at best, so why not make the shot aspect work better? At this point, it appears that Taurus is selling all they can make, but when the pickings get thin, maybe they will indeed change things.
Moon
Well said. I feel the new "trail carbine" that is based on the judge has more potential due to it's long barrel and option of rifled or smooth bore.
JR47
Member
The gun is designed for close-in work with either cartridge. It's advantage lies in the ability to use either the .410 or .45 Long Colt in a package that can be carried, or stored for use, in places that a rifle won't work.
Not every gun out there is supposed to do everything. You won't find many 2" J-frames in IDPA winner's hands. Does that mean that all J-frames are poorly designed?
Not every gun out there is supposed to do everything. You won't find many 2" J-frames in IDPA winner's hands. Does that mean that all J-frames are poorly designed?
I have one. Only about a hundred rounds through it so far, eighty percent 45 Colt in original Winchester, Federal 200 HP, and my handloads with 255 swc lead and 230 plated hp. 410s have been about one third each, 2 1/2" Winchester defense loads, 2 1/2" #4s that I had laying around and three inch 7 1/2s.
No looseness, no problems, fair accuracy at up to fifteen yards (all I've done so far) and good patterns at seven yards with the three inchers, great "patterns" with the 3 disc Winchester defense loads.
My loads are in the 870 fps range with the heavier bullets. My Charter Bulldog 44 special kicks harder with equivalent loads.
Mine has a high vis front sight which is fine for close stuff but not so good at any distance. I'll try a few clay birds on the hill when I get out the next time.......hundred yards seeing if I can "walk it in"...
As I said before, check the throats before you buy. Early ones were oversize. New ones are sized right.
No looseness, no problems, fair accuracy at up to fifteen yards (all I've done so far) and good patterns at seven yards with the three inchers, great "patterns" with the 3 disc Winchester defense loads.
My loads are in the 870 fps range with the heavier bullets. My Charter Bulldog 44 special kicks harder with equivalent loads.
Mine has a high vis front sight which is fine for close stuff but not so good at any distance. I'll try a few clay birds on the hill when I get out the next time.......hundred yards seeing if I can "walk it in"...
As I said before, check the throats before you buy. Early ones were oversize. New ones are sized right.
weregunner
Member
Anecdotal evidence is inadmissable.
Those that are real problems happen, but the majority of owners find it works well. Google or no Google.
I can find and bring more showing that they do work as can be seen here by the owners and at other places.
The company cannot keep with demand and that is out of the CEO's mouth.
If the Judge were garbage it would not be successful and others would not be tryong to follow in the wake of Taurus.
So let this be about the actual owners and users. Not something else.
I've been to the NRA conventions and now a lot of Judge owners and have seen enough Judges for gun sales. I've even handled the range guns fro rent at various places.
None of them had any problems. But this is anecdotal. If there were a real problem the problem would have shown up by now.
People vote with their wallets. And they voted for the Judge in large numbers.
So let the owners be. The public at large knows that looking a gun over, giving it a critical eye, common sense,trying it out, and what to look for are common place and that this all should be done prior to buying a gun.
Many gun forums have check lists on the what to look for prior to buying the gun.
The written media also has this as a regular item in their magazines. So there is no reason for anyone not to know how to buy a gun if they are really going to take the time and dedicate themselves to shooting a gun.
Newbies will find this out one way or another. Lessons have to be learned. We've all been there.
One of my main gripes is that there should be more mentoring by us in the shooting culture than there is right now.
My hat is off to those who do mentor others in the shooting arts.
These gun forums are good for some data on guns, but it is by far from THE authority about guns.
It is also true that the Internet also has a lot of misinformation and is a lot of data is actually false.
The Internet and gun forums can help, but only so far.
I do not know anyone who bought a gun because of data on the Internet alone.
Nor do gun savvy people do that.
Actually close inspection, handling of the item,and actually gaining some real useful knowledge of the gun first hand is better than consulting others who are a unknown quantity.
Both the Internet gun forums and actual experience handling and shooting the gun is what counts. Having a good knowledge about firearms before purchasing is a good idea and cannot be found entirely on the net.
NRA courses and other classes that are accredited are the way to go for the most part.
Some assistance or help from us gun owners can also help and that needs to be at the personal level or one on one.
Those that are real problems happen, but the majority of owners find it works well. Google or no Google.
I can find and bring more showing that they do work as can be seen here by the owners and at other places.
The company cannot keep with demand and that is out of the CEO's mouth.
If the Judge were garbage it would not be successful and others would not be tryong to follow in the wake of Taurus.
So let this be about the actual owners and users. Not something else.
I've been to the NRA conventions and now a lot of Judge owners and have seen enough Judges for gun sales. I've even handled the range guns fro rent at various places.
None of them had any problems. But this is anecdotal. If there were a real problem the problem would have shown up by now.
People vote with their wallets. And they voted for the Judge in large numbers.
So let the owners be. The public at large knows that looking a gun over, giving it a critical eye, common sense,trying it out, and what to look for are common place and that this all should be done prior to buying a gun.
Many gun forums have check lists on the what to look for prior to buying the gun.
The written media also has this as a regular item in their magazines. So there is no reason for anyone not to know how to buy a gun if they are really going to take the time and dedicate themselves to shooting a gun.
Newbies will find this out one way or another. Lessons have to be learned. We've all been there.
One of my main gripes is that there should be more mentoring by us in the shooting culture than there is right now.
My hat is off to those who do mentor others in the shooting arts.
These gun forums are good for some data on guns, but it is by far from THE authority about guns.
It is also true that the Internet also has a lot of misinformation and is a lot of data is actually false.
The Internet and gun forums can help, but only so far.
I do not know anyone who bought a gun because of data on the Internet alone.
Nor do gun savvy people do that.
Actually close inspection, handling of the item,and actually gaining some real useful knowledge of the gun first hand is better than consulting others who are a unknown quantity.
Both the Internet gun forums and actual experience handling and shooting the gun is what counts. Having a good knowledge about firearms before purchasing is a good idea and cannot be found entirely on the net.
NRA courses and other classes that are accredited are the way to go for the most part.
Some assistance or help from us gun owners can also help and that needs to be at the personal level or one on one.
weregunner
Member
Let this be done here by the actual owners. Not by outsiders who's actual experience is nil.
blarby
Member
hickok45 has a really nice video demo of this model on ( don;t curse me ) youtube.
As I said before, I have one. What I didn't say was that we've sold about thirty in the last eighteen months and only returned one and that was one that the owner blew with his handloads. What I did say was that the ones with oversize throats lead badly. I've spent several hours cleaning these for the customers.
Not a one returned for factory problems but a few going out soon to ask for refitting of properly sized chambered cylinders.
Good guns. Not great, but way better than their small framed ones.
We just sold a Raging Judge. About as heavy as a Desert Eagle (a little exaggeration) but with the 454 you'd need the weight. Waiting for the owner's report on it. Based on the Raging Bull chassis with front and rear lockup.
Not a one returned for factory problems but a few going out soon to ask for refitting of properly sized chambered cylinders.
Good guns. Not great, but way better than their small framed ones.
We just sold a Raging Judge. About as heavy as a Desert Eagle (a little exaggeration) but with the 454 you'd need the weight. Waiting for the owner's report on it. Based on the Raging Bull chassis with front and rear lockup.
JR47
Member
Reading comprehension? You obviously "forgot" what you actually posted, so I put it up side-by-side to help you. Where do you talk about accuracy? Or shot patterns? Or the build quality?
Sounds like you should take your own advice.
[/B]
Reading comprehension? You obviously "forgot" what you actually posted, so I put it up side-by-side to help you. Where do you talk about accuracy? Or shot patterns? Or the build quality?
Sounds like you should take your own advice.
You stated that nowhere in this thread did I mention that I have owned a judge... so I pointed out exactly where I said that I had owned one. The fact that you weren't able to comprehend that I had already stated that I owned one was evidence of your lack of comprehension.
It really makes no difference to me if you or anybody else buys a judge. I have owned and still own a number of taurus firearms. Some have been good, some have had problems, which can be the case with any firearm manufacturer. There is no need for Taurus fanboys to get their underwear in a bunch every time somebody mentions problems they have had with a Taurus firearm.
Just took my Tactical Judge out today. 3" barrel with porting.
Fired .45 Colt through it at 7 yards and very nice grouping. First tried double action and then single action. Aside from one flyer, other 9 shots were in 3" circle. Recoil was quite acceptable.
Didnt have chance to shoot 00 Buck loads I had, so not sure what their accuracy is.
Fun gun - came with a rail, so looking for a sturdy light to put under it (home defense gun).
Fired .45 Colt through it at 7 yards and very nice grouping. First tried double action and then single action. Aside from one flyer, other 9 shots were in 3" circle. Recoil was quite acceptable.
Didnt have chance to shoot 00 Buck loads I had, so not sure what their accuracy is.
Fun gun - came with a rail, so looking for a sturdy light to put under it (home defense gun).
JR47
Member
I can assure you that I own far in excess of your collection of handguns, and they range from RG to Korth and Korriphila. A Fanboy of any brand I'm not.
Now, your first post was general and vague, not at all like your "explanation" of what "you had posted".
To be quite frank, the initial post smelled strongly of troll, hence the question.
PcolaDawg
Member
I've owned a Judge for two years now (3" barrel) and it's in my car right now loaded with buckshot.
As to recoil, I don't think it's any stronger than my Kimber .45 .... that is UNTIL I loaded it with .45 Colt defense rounds. That gave it the meanest kick I've ever felt in a handgun. It's the only time handgun recoil ever actually caused pain in my wrist. And the Judge grips are very soft and comfortable.
Anyway, I mainly use it as a gun for my car on trips and as a snake gun when I'm mowing my yard (I live up against a swamp and run into Copperheads and Water Moccasins on occasion). So I find it a very useful gun and the recoil isn't that bad in my opinion when you are shooting .410 shells, even buckshot.
Now, I should add that the very first time I ever shot it, I loaded it with .410 birdshot, went out to my backyard, pulled the trigger .... and blew the barrel clean off the gun. I immediately took it back to the gun shop - they freaked and sent it back to Taurus. Taurus fixed it very quickly and I have had zero problems with it since.
I know a story like the above can be controversial on here as some people hate Taurus with a purple passion and some love Taurus the same way. I don't really care. I like my Judge and use it a lot --- but I did, in fact, blow the barrel off of the sucker the first time I used it.
Just wanted to give you the full story. Since then, one of my law partners bought a Judge to use as a snake gun while hunting and he loves his as well.
As to recoil, I don't think it's any stronger than my Kimber .45 .... that is UNTIL I loaded it with .45 Colt defense rounds. That gave it the meanest kick I've ever felt in a handgun. It's the only time handgun recoil ever actually caused pain in my wrist. And the Judge grips are very soft and comfortable.
Anyway, I mainly use it as a gun for my car on trips and as a snake gun when I'm mowing my yard (I live up against a swamp and run into Copperheads and Water Moccasins on occasion). So I find it a very useful gun and the recoil isn't that bad in my opinion when you are shooting .410 shells, even buckshot.
Now, I should add that the very first time I ever shot it, I loaded it with .410 birdshot, went out to my backyard, pulled the trigger .... and blew the barrel clean off the gun. I immediately took it back to the gun shop - they freaked and sent it back to Taurus. Taurus fixed it very quickly and I have had zero problems with it since.
I know a story like the above can be controversial on here as some people hate Taurus with a purple passion and some love Taurus the same way. I don't really care. I like my Judge and use it a lot --- but I did, in fact, blow the barrel off of the sucker the first time I used it.
Just wanted to give you the full story. Since then, one of my law partners bought a Judge to use as a snake gun while hunting and he loves his as well.
You're missing the point, I was accused of never having stated that I owned a Judge, when clearly I had stated on the first page that I previously owned one. I purposely did not go into detail on the first post about why I lost interest in the Judge after my experience with it because that was not what the original poster was asking about. Contrary to trolling, I was trying to avoid turning this thread into a thread about the quality of the Judge. Had the original poster asked "what does everybody think about the quality of the Judge" I would have gone into more detail right away. In this relatively short thread, we already have yet another person stating an obvious quality control issue in that their BARREL BLEW OFF the first time they shot their Judge... My PT92 has been a great gun and several other Tauruses I have owned including the Judge and a PT145 were problematic.
JR47
Member
Ah, yes, the barrel blowing off. That would make them resemble the Ruger Redhawk, and the S&W Models 10 and the X-Frames, wouldn't it?
I checked four various Judges yesterday at the local gun store. ALL of them exhibited good QC. The cylinder indexed properly, and locked up tightly. The average barrel-gap was .006" by feeler gauge. None of them exhibited any questionable trigger problems, and they weren't particularly gritty, more along the lines of the various S&W J-frames that they had.
To be able to do this, I had to buy something. So, I want all of you to understand that the FNP-45 that I bought is your fault. My wife wants to talk to you all.
I checked four various Judges yesterday at the local gun store. ALL of them exhibited good QC. The cylinder indexed properly, and locked up tightly. The average barrel-gap was .006" by feeler gauge. None of them exhibited any questionable trigger problems, and they weren't particularly gritty, more along the lines of the various S&W J-frames that they had.
To be able to do this, I had to buy something. So, I want all of you to understand that the FNP-45 that I bought is your fault. My wife wants to talk to you all.
weregunner
Member
Same here JR47. Had the same experiences, but just a bit different.
I was at the local gun shop and was looking over the Judges in the showcase like you when in walked.......
There's a ladies only group that meets every other Thursday here in Waukesha,to shoot.
One of the fun guns that they cannot get enough of is the Judge. These gals shoot everything (handgun types) under the sun. There are over 60 women in the group. This is knowledgeable group of competitor shooters who've been doing this for years. The gals only get together isn't competitive, but for fun.
The competition is in USPA/IPSC, bullseye, and IDPA when those are running.
I was at the local gun shop and was looking over the Judges in the showcase like you when in walked.......
There's a ladies only group that meets every other Thursday here in Waukesha,to shoot.
One of the fun guns that they cannot get enough of is the Judge. These gals shoot everything (handgun types) under the sun. There are over 60 women in the group. This is knowledgeable group of competitor shooters who've been doing this for years. The gals only get together isn't competitive, but for fun.
The competition is in USPA/IPSC, bullseye, and IDPA when those are running.
Palehorseman
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 736
Wife has fired her 3" cylinder Judge a lot with both shell and cartridge, no problems from recoil or other, and she will be 70 years old come June.
tinygnat219
Member
Caveat here: I've never owned a Judge. My opinions here are based solely on personal experience with renting one at the range. My personal opinion of Taurus products in general is that if you get one made on Wed. 6 months after Carnivale after the technician "got some" the night before, you have a very good bargain. Other than that, their QC tends to suffer. Damn, this disclaimer is getting to be longer than the actual experience. Well, that's Taurus for you.
My local range has them for rent so I bought a box of each caliber / bore and fired away.
Loads were a No. 6 Birdshot, and Buckshot in .410 Bore both in 2.5 inch shells.
Magtech .45 Colt loads with a LRN 265 grain bullet. Nothing special.
No. 6 shot patterned at 10 feet was literally all over the place. Some hitting the edges of the B-27 target. In checking with my buddy's target next to me, some of the little shot hit his Shoot N C target. Pretty poor defensive round at that distance IMHO as the shot would literally sandpaper the target to annoyance and it violates that silly little rule for "knowing what is beyond your target". As for snake stomping distance from 6-10 feet on the ground, this would be pretty impressive. Much nicer than my .38 SPL CCI snake shot. There's simply more shot to toss around and from 6-10 feet pointed at the ground, enough lead will hit the snake. Taurus might actually have something here.
Buckshot was a lot better, but the patterns starting really opening up at 15-20 feet. More than I would be comfortable with for use in a defensive firearm. However, for snake stomping distance, this would be another fine load. Anything between 6-10 feet though this would be the load I'd want to use in this gun.
.45 Colt was accurate enough, but there was a LOT of leading around the forcing cone, and has been my experience with Taurus revolvers, I got some specks of lead hitting my hands.
All in all, it's a gun with no real purpose IMHO unless you plan on offing a lot of snakes and in that capacity, I don't think there's a better firearm pound for pound than the Judge. Oh yeah, and it's fun to shoot. Would I own one of these? Maybe if I had some land and a snake problem. Of course I also own a S&W 610 and that serves no purpose other than to make me giggle when I shoot it. So to each his own.
Seeing as how I had several bad experiences with Taurus products (0 for 7), I can at least acknowledge when something works. Looking at the facts here, they've sold a boat-load of these making every other revolver manufacturer slap their foreheads and go "why the hell didn't we do this?". They've managed to wake up S&W enough to get them to copy the Judge with the Governor, and they've gotten at least 2 ammo manufacturers to make loads specifically for the Judge. Also, it happens to be the best selling gun in Taurus history, surpassing demand for their 1911, which is considerable. I got this tidbit from Tom Morrison at SHOT Show. I think it's mentioned in print elsewhere. Don't care enough to look it up, I'll leave that to those that care to. Not too shabby for a gun that was looking for a reason to be around. While I tend to hate Taurus's QC on products, I have to give credit where credit is due.
My local range has them for rent so I bought a box of each caliber / bore and fired away.
Loads were a No. 6 Birdshot, and Buckshot in .410 Bore both in 2.5 inch shells.
Magtech .45 Colt loads with a LRN 265 grain bullet. Nothing special.
No. 6 shot patterned at 10 feet was literally all over the place. Some hitting the edges of the B-27 target. In checking with my buddy's target next to me, some of the little shot hit his Shoot N C target. Pretty poor defensive round at that distance IMHO as the shot would literally sandpaper the target to annoyance and it violates that silly little rule for "knowing what is beyond your target". As for snake stomping distance from 6-10 feet on the ground, this would be pretty impressive. Much nicer than my .38 SPL CCI snake shot. There's simply more shot to toss around and from 6-10 feet pointed at the ground, enough lead will hit the snake. Taurus might actually have something here.
Buckshot was a lot better, but the patterns starting really opening up at 15-20 feet. More than I would be comfortable with for use in a defensive firearm. However, for snake stomping distance, this would be another fine load. Anything between 6-10 feet though this would be the load I'd want to use in this gun.
.45 Colt was accurate enough, but there was a LOT of leading around the forcing cone, and has been my experience with Taurus revolvers, I got some specks of lead hitting my hands.
All in all, it's a gun with no real purpose IMHO unless you plan on offing a lot of snakes and in that capacity, I don't think there's a better firearm pound for pound than the Judge. Oh yeah, and it's fun to shoot. Would I own one of these? Maybe if I had some land and a snake problem. Of course I also own a S&W 610 and that serves no purpose other than to make me giggle when I shoot it. So to each his own.
Seeing as how I had several bad experiences with Taurus products (0 for 7), I can at least acknowledge when something works. Looking at the facts here, they've sold a boat-load of these making every other revolver manufacturer slap their foreheads and go "why the hell didn't we do this?". They've managed to wake up S&W enough to get them to copy the Judge with the Governor, and they've gotten at least 2 ammo manufacturers to make loads specifically for the Judge. Also, it happens to be the best selling gun in Taurus history, surpassing demand for their 1911, which is considerable. I got this tidbit from Tom Morrison at SHOT Show. I think it's mentioned in print elsewhere. Don't care enough to look it up, I'll leave that to those that care to. Not too shabby for a gun that was looking for a reason to be around. While I tend to hate Taurus's QC on products, I have to give credit where credit is due.
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