Taurus 92 compared to Beretta

[David E]

What would that be?

After the clearance process is done, the slide goes into battery. Immediately perform a thumb-up motion to ensure the slide mounted safety/decocker is in the "fire" position. You can do this while pushing the gun out towards the target. Alternatively or in addition to, you can use your off hand (thumb and/or index finger) to do it while pulling the slide back

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks

 

[wally]

I disagree that it's "very easy" to decock the gun while you're shooting it

It is if you learned the 1911 technique of riding the safety with your thumb.

I prefer the Beretta 9000S system of up past safe to decock, but I basically am a cocked and locked guy.

 

[PT92]

Were I suggest a modern 9mm to someone, the Taurus and Beretta would both be pretty far down the list.

Wow-For a full-size 9mm, I couldn't disagree more as the Beretta 92 (or Taurus equivalent) fits like a glove and the balance is such that I can almost fire it blind at the range. Now for CCW, it's not for me as I carry a compact 9.

But it's great that we all have our own opinions.

-Cheers

 

[LawScholar]

Law... can you educate me on this statement? Was this due to machinery being replaced, factories moving or other factors?

The former, as I understood it. Taurus design and materials revisions necessitated updates to machining.

 

[jim243]

Personal choice, both good weapons. My choice was the PT-92 because I do not like the Beretta safety, have the PX4 Storm but hate the safety.

Jim

 

[bullseye717]

Neither and go with the Yavuz 16. Cheaper than the Taurus, better fit and finish than the Beretta.

 

[David E]

Wow-For a full-size 9mm, I couldn't disagree more as the Beretta 92 (or Taurus equivalent) fits like a glove...

It's too big for most people, the DA trigger reach, too far. The reset, needlessly long.

There are other guns that fit most folks better and are easier to learn to shoot.

BUT, if someone found the 92 fit their hand like a glove, I wouldn't talk them out of it, but I'd mention the additional gun handling protocols the gun requires. And I'd suggest the Beretta over the Taurus.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I carried a Beretta 96FS on police patrol but I prefer the Taurus' frame mounted manual safety/decocker to the Beretta's slide mounted hammer drop safety.

 

[3KillerBs]

It's too big for most people, the DA trigger reach, too far. The reset, needlessly long.

That sounds strange to me.

I'm a woman with smaller hands and a particularly short trigger reach yet the Beretta/Taurus 92's are the best-fitting guns I've handled/shot. When I pick one up it fits into my hand as though they'd taken a cast when they designed the grips.

And, unlike the full-size 1911's, I can reach all the controls without any difficulty. If I shot a match with one I wouldn't have to have the RO lock my slide back to show clear for me.

If I get one, and I hope I do (but a purely range gun with no other purpose in my life is low on the priority list), I'll get the Taurus because the position of the safety works better for me.

 

[David E]

That sounds strange to me.

I'm a woman with smaller hands and a particularly short trigger reach yet the Beretta/Taurus 92's are the best-fitting guns I've handled/shot. When I pick one up it fits into my hand as though they'd taken a cast when they designed the grips.

While many people can shoot the gun comfortably once the hammer is cocked, can you properly reach the trigger when the hammer is down without rotating your hand on the grip? Many folks can't.

And, unlike the full-size 1911's, I can reach all the controls without any difficulty. If I shot a match with one I wouldn't have to have the RO lock my slide back to show clear for me.

The 1911 was really the first modular handgun made. If you can't reach or work this or that control, there is a replacement that'll likely solve the issue for you. I installed a "low mount" thumb safety for my small handed daughter and it solved the problem. As far as locking back the slide, that's simply a technique issue.

 

[JaxNovice]

The single dumbest things I ever did was sell my Beretta INOX. It was the smoothest pistols I have ever owned.

 

[3KillerBs]

As far as locking back the slide, that's simply a technique issue.

No, its a size of hand issue. I cannot physically hold the slide, hold the grip, and reach the slide release lever at the same time unless I lay the gun down and pin it to the table with my forearm -- not the safest practice. The RO who owns that gun is a NRA certified instructor and there was at least one other instructor there at the time.

I have absolutely no problems shooting the 92. When I rented one at a range I was handed the cased gun and the mandatory "buy it here or don't shoot it at all" box of ammo, took it into the range, and did everything necessary to shoot it. It was a perfect fit.

The big Colt was a not a problem for trigger reach, shooting it was fine. But a compact Kimber 1911 that I did have to scoot my hand around to reach the trigger left the joint at the base of my thumb sore for a week after one magazine. I've also has trigger reach issues with other small guns, notably the Kel-tecs and one of the Bersa's.

Yet that monster 92 is perfect. If it didn't weight half a ton and could be concealed under anything short of a hoop skirt I'd have gotten it second, after my Ruger Mark III.

I think it may have as much to do with the shape of my hand as with the overall size. Rather than the narrow hand and long, slender fingers of a normal woman's hand, I have a wide palm with relatively shorter fingers -- like a miniature man's hand. I wear boy's gloves rather than women's because women's are too tight even while the fingers are too long.

 

[David E]

No, its a size of hand issue. I cannot physically hold the slide, hold the grip, and reach the slide release lever at the same time unless I lay the gun down and pin it to the table with my forearm -- not the safest practice. The RO who owns that gun is a NRA certified instructor and there was at least one other instructor there at the time.

With all due respect, maybe a different instructor(s) is in order. I've taught many folks with small hands how to lock the slide on a 1911, some in an impromptu lesson at the gun counter. (employees know me and often ask) 99.9% of the time, its a technique issue. The rest of the time, two alternatives are available to you: 1) replace the standard slide stop with an extended one, or 2) insert an empty magazine to operate the slide stop for you when you fully retract the slide. #2 is an easy, no cost solution that beats the hell out of "pinning it on a table with your forearm." I'm amazed these "instructors" didn't think of that.

I have absolutely no problems shooting the 92. When I rented one at a range I did everything necessary to shoot it. It was a perfect fit.

The big Colt was a not a problem for trigger reach, shooting it was fine. But a compact Kimber 1911 that I did have to scoot my hand around to reach the trigger left the joint at the base of my thumb sore for a week after one magazine.

IF your hands are truly that small, it seems incongruous that you find the Beretta a "perfect fit," to presumably include proper trigger finger placement when the trigger is fully forward. (which you didn't specifically address) while a 1911 is not, as the trigger reach is measurably shorter.

The full-size and compact 1911's have the same trigger reach, if set up the same. (same mainspring housing, same grip thickness, same grip safety, thumb safety and same length trigger.) It sounds like the compact was simply not set up the same.

I would guess you need a 1911 set up with a short trigger, thin grips, flat mainspring housing, low mount thumb safety and Ed Brown beavertail grip safety. I doubt the compact or even full-size was set up that way.

 

[NG VI]

I really like the discontinued model 917 because of the shorter barrel, maybe I'll be able to find one of them still floating around...
Thanks again, Mike

ATI's been making and importing some Centurion-type 92 clones recently, that are supposed to be excellent and are maybe half the cost of a Beretta. Centurions are the shorter barreled versions, the way you like 'em.

 

[NG VI]

Sorry ATI's been importing some 92 clones, not making.

 

[3KillerBs]

...

I would guess you need a 1911 set up with a short trigger, thin grips, flat mainspring housing, low mount thumb safety and Ed Brown beavertail grip safety. I doubt the compact or even full-size was set up that way.

Or I can just buy a 92 instead of a 1911.

I can use a 1911 if I'm ever in a situation where that's all I had available to pick up. But there's no point to spending any of my money on a gun that doesn't fit and has to be heavily modified to make it comfortable to use.

I tell the story of using that borrowed Colt to make the point that being able to shoot a gun isn't the whole story where good gun fit is concerned.

I comment about the incongruity of the 92 fitting so well despite my hands being rather small (I loaded and fired several magazines in the rented 92 then cleared the gun safe to return it to the rental counter so I must surely have had the trigger in the position you're mentioning at some point though I didn't consciously note it), to illustrate the fact that the size of the gun doesn't necessarily correlate to the length of the trigger reach or the size of hand needed to use it.

 

[Jaymo]

13 years shooting 2 of them and not a single malf.
Of all the Taurus pistols/revolvers I've owned since 1991, I've never had a single problem.

 

[PowerG]

I have owned both pistols, I also much prefer the safety on the Taurus.

The design itself, for me, fits very well. I'm more of a 1911 guy, but I prefer shooting the 92 over almost all other 9mm handguns. It is a large pistol.

 

[David E]

I comment about the incongruity of the 92 fitting so well despite my hands being rather small (I loaded and fired several magazines in the rented 92 then cleared the gun safe to return it to the rental counter so I must surely have had the trigger in the position you're mentioning at some point though I didn't consciously note it), to illustrate the fact that the size of the gun doesn't necessarily correlate to the length of the trigger reach or the size of hand needed to use it.

As I stated in my first response to you, many folks CAN shoot the 92......once the hammer is cocked, as that moves the trigger pretty far to the rear. Since you have no conscious recollection of trigger finger placement, it sounds like you only fired the gun from the single action mode. Load mag, insert mag, chamber round, shoot.

Had you decocked the gun on a chambered round, I bet you would've remembered the long DA trigger reach, given your small hand size/short fingers.

You do hit on the gun fit issue, but only partially: on any given gun, you need to thoroughly test it in all modes the gun is capable of. In the case of the Beretta, if you didn't fire it in DA mode, then you don't know if it really "fits" you, or that it's truly suitable. You'd also need to test the decocking lever, etc, as you'd need to reliably activate it as a matter of routine.

I said earlier that if I were asked to recommend a modern 9mm for someone who is open to ideas, the Beretta/Taurus 92's are pretty far down the list. This has more to do with the proper gunhandling protocols those models require than gun fit.

 

[Whiskey11]

The reset, needlessly long.

I'm not sure what M92 you've shot, but mine literally resets quite literally a MM off of the release point. I'm not sure that is what I'd qualify as needlessly long. My XD45 Tactical has a longer reset by about a mm.

 

[happygeek]

As I stated in my first response to you, many folks CAN shoot the 92......once the hammer is cocked, as that moves the trigger pretty far to the rear. Since you have no conscious recollection of trigger finger placement, it sounds like you only fired the gun from the single action mode. Load mag, insert mag, chamber round, shoot.

?

You have to take the safety off and manually cock the hammer to get it to single action mode, that or take the safety off and pull the trigger with a round in the chamber (disclaimer: don't actually execute option 2 unless you're on a hot range). The 92fs is on double action after you insert a mag and hit the slide release with the safety on. Of course once you do that you can always take the safety off and carry it around Glock style, I know many that do. I don't know anyone who carries a 92fs/M9 around with the safety off and the pistol in SA mode.

I routinely CC my 92fs IWB with jeans and a t-shirt. Then again open carry is legal here and there's no law against 'printing'.

 

[David E]

I'm not sure what M92 you've shot, but mine literally resets quite literally a MM off of the release point. I'm not sure that is what I'd qualify as needlessly long. My XD45 Tactical has a longer reset by about a mm.

I suppose it depends what you're used to. They have a long reset (about 1/2") followed by a long take up (about 1/4"). Compared to a Glock or PPQ or 1911, it's needlessly long. My personal 92 has been fitted with an over-travel stop, handily minimizing these shortcomings.

 

[David E]

?

You have to take the safety off and manually cock the hammer to get it to single action mode, that or take the safety off and pull the trigger with a round in the chamber. The 92 is in DA mode when the slide is dropped with the safety on.

That presumes she dropped the slide with the safety applied. If she did not (she hasn't told us either way) then it's easy to totally bypass the DA mode for the 2-3 mags she put thru it. And no offense, but firing 2-3 mags thru a given gun does not make one an authority on given gun.

A short fingered person who finds the trigger reach on a compact 1911 too long, it's difficult for me to visualize that same person NOT having a problem reaching the 92 trigger when in DA mode.

For small handed folks, I suggest the M&P, XDM, XD, Kahr or even Glock.

 

[JTQ]

3KillerBs, while everybody's hands are different, I'm inclined to agree with DavidE, that a 1911 would most likely be easier for the small handed to use than the Beretta 92.

The size of Beretta and the problems it creates for folk's with small hands is reported in practically every article on the 92. Beretta even came out with the Vertec model to accommodate those with smaller hands. The Vertec, in my opinion, is a huge improvement for those with small hands over the standard 92. I believe the Vertec grip shape was even patterned after the 1911 to improve comfort for those with small hands.

I will grant you that locking the slide back on an empty gun does require some effort. An empty mag makes it very easy.