Taurus "Judge" for car/general defense

[Dimis]

ugh another judge hate thread-jacking

Quote:
no one wants to be shot even if it isnt going to kill them

This is a good reason to spend your hard-earned $500 on a revolver why, exactly?

basicly what i was saying is im tired of the "this wont hurt a baby" crap everyone spouts about .410 out of a barrel less than "X" inches long
if it wont do any damage and wont hurt etc. then why dont we all just carry the judge loaded full of .410 000 buck for "less lethal" uses???
oh yea thats right it PROBABLY WILL KILL SOMEONE
but...
since the experts on some halfwitted website have stated the ballistic probability of .410 isnt worth spitting at a bunch of sheep follow suite and scream it as factual
but yet no one wants to be shot with one to prove that its not going to hurt
wonder why that is?

as for ballistic measurments and all the research spent finding out what will kill is just a waist of time there have been many people shot to death with one round from a .22 and alot of cases of people shot SEVERAL times with .45 ACP and lived
so quit bashing the judge for being a lackluster defence choise unless youve been shot with one and can say it didnt hurt you...

and once your done that pull up tour blue tights and slap on the old red cape cause i hear Lois calling

 

[Mgbfred]

I like mine! Say what they may, I tested mine, and I know what it will do in that "bad breath range"!

 

[mgkdrgn]

Buckshot retains its energy long after it passes 8 paces. So does #4 birdshot, actually.

Hell, I know a guy who had to have a few #6 pellets surgically removed, and the shooter (his brother, out bird hunting) was 80 yards away. Almost cost him his eye.

Sorry, but you're wrong about this.

If he had been hit with a 9mm or 45acp round at that range, he wouldn't have "almost" lost an eye.

 

[mgkdrgn]

ugh another judge hate thread-jacking

basicly what i was saying is im tired of the "this wont hurt a baby" crap everyone spouts about .410

I also love the folks that are "experts" on firearms they have never even seen, much less fired.

When I take my Judge to the range, there is usually -somebody- that wants to see / shoot it. Often those folks are among the skeptics who have "heard the experts speak".

The almost universal reaction upon firing the first round is "Son of a B*&^H! They said this thing had no hitting power..." or something of that nature.

It's a tool. It's big. It's not "pretty". It's not a collectible. It's not trophy winning accurate. But at SD distances, anybody on the wrong side of the trigger when it goes off is going to have a very bad (if not final) day.

 

[ArmedBear]

mgkdrgn-

You are the one who exhibits ignorance about ballistics, nobody else here.

f he had been hit with a 9mm or 45acp round at that range, he wouldn't have "almost" lost an eye.

A couple issues here... The reason he didn't lose an eye is because it missed his eye by 1/2". A 9mm wouldn't have taken out his eye, either, at 80 yards, if it missed his eye.

Also, that's #6 shot, which is a good deal smaller than #4. The #6 still penetrated at 80 yards, which suggests that #4 shot is still VERY dangerous to bystanders at, say, 20 yards or less. The fact that the pattern is all on a man-sized target close to contact distance hardly suggests a tight pattern.

at SD distances, anybody on the wrong side of the trigger when it goes off is going to have a very bad (if not final) day.

Which could be said about anything from a pocket .380 to a .500 S&W, a single shot flintlock to a Glock 18.

That was my point.

Your statement that nobody wants to get shot does not support the purchase of the Judge, specifically, in any way.

Before you go off on another rant, consider that I did not say anything remotely resembling "a Judge will not hurt its target" and neither did anyone else.

I also never said that the Judge is an unmitigated ball of suckiness. I just wouldn't recommend it as a first revolver, for car-carry self-defense against violent criminals (as opposed to, say, a versatile camp gun where venomous snakes are a real threat, but so are humans and predators).

 

[CleverNickname]

But they'd have a worse day if shot by most anything else. Why you'd want to handicap yourself I have no idea.

 

[Hawk]

...consider that I did not say anything remotely resembling "a Judge will not hurt its target" and neither did anyone else.

Indeed, it does appear at times that participants in "Judge" threads read between the lines as it were. A distinct lack of enthusiasm isn't bashing - it's simply a tepid reception.

I've handled the things and they come across so some of us older types as a 21st century handgun equivalent of the Amphicar.

Somehow, marrying a horrible boat with a mediocre automobile resulted in sufficient charm that thousands were sold and a fair number survive to this day. I was one that didn't see the charm in the Amphicar at the time and will likely remain blind to the charm of its handgun equivalent which combines a shotgun few would buy (as a stand-alone shotgun) with an oversized, under capacity .45 Colt that's been cylinder-stretched to accomodate a shotgun round.

But there's a significant portion of the population that firmly believes that a whole is equal to more than the sum of its parts and the Judge may well have appeal with those folks.

 

[Stainz]

I have run across copperheads and rattlers in the woods - and I walk around them. In my wooded backyard, in a residential area, they are easily dissected with a hoe, if so desired. I hate cottonmouths, but I seldom play in slow moving streams or ponds these days. Oddly, if I had 4 acres to mow, I'd probably be up off the ground on a riding mower. Whether pushing one or riding on one, the prospect of mulching a snake is always there. Besides, for 2yd away - on the ground in front of you - a shot shell for your .38, .44, or .45 would suffice.

I wanted a SS Judge... I liked the 'novelty'. Two years ago this summer, I went to the pusher's - moola in hand - just to watch the last one being sold. The next day - at the range - a blued variant appeared. I had a wood-gripped 625MG in .45 Colt - and my 255gr LSWC @ 880 fps loads. I swapped with the fellow - shot two birdshot .410s and three Cowboy loads - his ammo (No one locally carried 000 loads.). We both like our own guns better. Admittedly, my loads were a bit stiffer than Cowboy loads - and then there was the wood grip - and my far better trigger and 'pointability'. He did hit the small rebounding metal plates with mine, while I didn't hit one with three .45 rounds from his - and I am normally a good shot. The birdshot made what looked like a celestial swirl pattern on the large bg silhouette paper at 12 yd. A family of snakes could have survived. I was not impressed.

I like my 625MGs - usually have one within reach in my Jeep. My front pocket has either a 5-shot .38 Spcl AirWeight, a 642, or a 5-shot .44 Spcl AirLite Ti, a 296, in a Mika pocket holster. That is protection. Those pocket guns, particularly the 642, are 24/7 carry pieces - a Judge would be a holster piece - with limited carry due to it's size and bulk.

Novelty wise, the Judge is a winner. It took years for me to get around to buying that 642 - I was fortunate. I have been fortunate to have it on my person on two occasions already. Whatever you choose, a CCW does you no good when you don't have it... it must be a 24/7 carry. Good luck!

Stainz

 

[outerlimit]

I saw someone shooting 3" magnum .410 000 shot at a target on American Rifleman. It was quite impressive! Throwing out that much lead in the time it takes to pull the trigger five times is incredible.

 

[sterling7c]

Quote by Stainz:

I like my 625MGs - usually have one within reach in my Jeep. My front pocket has either a 5-shot .38 Spcl AirWeight, a 642, or a 5-shot .44 Spcl AirLite Ti, a 296, in a Mika pocket holster. That is protection. Those pocket guns, particularly the 642, are 24/7 carry pieces - a Judge would be a holster piece - with limited carry due to it's size and bulk.

Whatever you choose, a CCW does you no good when you don't have it... it must be a 24/7 carry. Good luck!

Can I give this a +3 ?

 

[ArmedBear]

I don't know, Hawk. I fully understand that is not a practical vehicle, nor is it a boat that could beat the slightest current or tide. But I've always wanted a Seep for the hell of it.

 

[shootistpd27]

I fell in love with the Judge from the moment I saw it. I did not buy the gun for me but for my wife. Before the Judge she only had a Walthers P22. The P22 is a great weapon but I was nervous about leaving my wife at home alone with only the 22. For one it is a slightly complicated weapon considering the safety. I would have no problem with it but for my wife who is not mechanically inclined, I fear that in the moment of an attack she would panic and only be pulling the trigger on a weapon with the safety on. "Click Click, no BOOM!" Even if the safety were off, the 22 round is somewhat effective however if my wife does not aim directly at the guy she wont hit him. The judge is a different story. It takes no training to become a crack shot with a 410 6 shot. Folks have been griping about the penetration of the 410, well, if thats the case then I have beaten that problem. First of all when a badguy hears the boom of a gun, most likely the sucker will run. But if he is hit by a 410, he will suffer wounds not only in one area but all over. They may not be fatal but they will getting him to thinking of how to get out of Dodge in a hurry. If you buy the Judge then I recommend that you stagger the rounds like I do for my wife. I have a 410 6 shot in the first chamber to be fired, and then a 45lc, then a OOO buck, 45lc, 410 6shot. With this loading technique the guy is going to suffer injuries. If hes running away he will suffer injuries for the shot gun shell. But if he keeps coming at my wife then the long colt will finish the job. The Judge is a fine weapon and I would recommend it to anyone for SD or for plinking. Its a little expensive to plink with but its fun as heck. Plus you will love watching your friends jaws drop when you pull it out. Just think of what the bad guy will think when he sees it. Good luck!

 

[GEM]

But if he keeps coming at my wife then the long colt will finish the job.

So the first shot isn't a stopper and he then shoots you? IIRC, this is called a Dutch load (from an old police practice there). The idea that you want to use a less effective load is not accepted by many.

That is the problem with the Judge - it seduces folks to use all kinds of schemes as compared to having reasonable competency with a good firearm.

 

[Big Daddy Grim]

Box O' Truth The Judge is not a very good gun for SD not sure when I read this but some guy died using it shot a crook in the face with the judge and crook still shot back I think they both died but don't quote me on that it was a while ago I read that and who believes what they read on the internet. If for SD I would go with .45 Colt at least I know that will stop sombody but still think there are better guns out there. I bought one when they came out and I sold it already was hunting and saw a ruffle grouse pulled the judge and shot the grouse at 6 feet grouse flew off unfased that was when I decided there were better guns for self defense.

 

[ArmedBear]

The idea that you want to use a less effective load is not accepted by many.

True.

I alternate shot and bullets in a small carry gun, but that's because if I'm hiking with my dogs I don't know if I might need it for a rattler or a rabid coyote. I don't do that for personal defense against human attackers.

 

[GEM]

Yep, that makes sense. When hunting, having a J frame with a couple of rounds of snake shot first works for us as you might run into a rattler in TX. Probably not a herd of zombie rattlers, so regular rounds for the rest.

For SD, the Dutch load isn't sensible. The Dutch police used it as they wanted to have nonlethal options given the milder criminals there way back when and with the old fashioned revolvers. Today is different.

 

[doc540]

The "Judge": an answer to a question never asked.

 

[DAdams]

Not For Me

Wouldn't have one myself, might be right for you, but it just isn't my cup o tea; I do have many shotguns, revolvers, semi-autos and rifles. I just don't get the Judge. But hey, as WC Fields said .....

 

[vanagon40]

ArmedBear wrote:

Also, you don't want to have your face alongside of the cylinder gap of a large-bore revolver, if you figure on using the gun for defense IN the vehicle.

Could someone please provide more detail on this concept. I measured the gap between the cylinder and barrel of my Judge as .013" (.33mm). I believe something is escaping through this gap.

Is this common?

 

[GEM]

If you have a revolver, put a piece of paper near the gap and fire.

BE CAREFUL with your fingers. Wear gloves, put the paper on a stick or use a long piece of cardboard! You will see that lots of BOOM comes out of the sides.

 

[ArmedBear]

Is this common?

Yes, but it's a characteristic of revolvers, not something bad about the Judge.

The result can range from "man, that was louder than I expected" with a .22 Short, all the way up to "cutting torch" with big-bores and hot magnums.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

What Hawk & ArmedBear said.... and I HAVE one. Very specialized use however; simply a swamp/slough anti-cottonmouth gun.