Taurus Judge Review (w/ targets)

[Brink]

As posted on "The Firing Line" forum.

I went to the range today (Pulaski Outdoorsman's Club in Somerset, KY), and tested my Taurus Judge PD Poly. I have read that some people don't like the Judge for some reason or another, but I decided to go out on a limb and give one a shot. All targets shot standing. First of all, the pistol in question:


Judge by kamelean, on Flickr

First up, I took a shot at a splatter target at 7 yards. Shooting Federal Premium 2 1/2 inch 000 Buckshot. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/533166/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-2-1-2-000-buckshot-4-pellets-box-of-20. This was one shot, single action, 2 handed. (The yellow impact mark to the left of the bulls-eye was the wadding impact.)


Buckshot by kamelean, on Flickr

Target number 2 is courtesy of Remington Slugger, 2 1/2 inch rifled slug, 1/5 ounce. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/415676/remington-slugger-ammunition-410-bore-2-1-2-1-5-oz-rifled-slug-box-of-5. 5 shots, single action, 2 hands, slow fire. Again at 7 yards.


5 slugs by kamelean, on Flickr

More in post 2.

 

[Brink]

Target number 3 is provided courtesy of Remington #8 shot sporting clays load http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601813402/remington-premier-nitro-gold-sporting-clays-target-ammunition-410-bore-2-1-2-1-2-oz-8-shot. Target shot at 3 yards, typical snake distance. One handed, single action.


Birdshot by kamelean, on Flickr

Final target was the same buckshot as earlier, http://www.midwayusa.com/product/533166/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-2-1-2-000-buckshot-4-pellets-box-of-20. This target was shot at 25 yards. 2 hands, single action. The target was a standard B-29 target. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/219685/nra-official-silhouette-target-b-29-50-foot-paper-package-of-100. I admit that I pulled the shot, but the grouping was what I was after. I shot at the x-ring, and caught the target at the left shoulder.


Group by kamelean, on Flickr

I feel that targets speak louder than words, so consider this my review of the Judge. I look forward to your comments.

 

[willypete]

Second image in the first post and first image in the second post have error messages.

What is the diameter of that multi-colored splatter target?

What are your impressions of recoil, balance, trigger pull, etc.? Pictures may speak louder than words, but you didn't take pictures of these things.

I hope you like your gun.

 

[Coal Dragger]

The pictures do speak louder than words. They firmly reinforce my view that the Judge concept is silly. It makes a lousy handgun capable of extremely sub-par accuracy, and an even worse shotgun.

 

[Brink]

Targets measure 8 inches for the circular area. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dirty-Bird-8-Multi-Colored-Target/16879502

Recoil is actually quite a bit. This is not a pistol that I would ever take out and just shoot for fun like I would a 22. The recoil does not flip the gun up and back like a typical pistol, it comes straight back in a straight line into your wrist. I was using an aggressive stance with my left foot forward, most weight on the left foot. Left shoulder forward. The recoil effectively transferred up my wrist through my arm, and I could feel it in my shoulder.

Balance. The balance point of the gun is very near the center when it is loaded. Look at the first picture, and you will see a screw at the front of the trigger guard. That is the balance point. With the balance point very near to the center, the gun points very well, which coincides with the hi-vis front sight. I'm used to sights like that on a shotgun, which is kind of what this is.

The trigger is tough to rate as I do not have a trigger scale. Single action, I can notice no creep. Best guess is a 5 pound pull. Also no overtravel. I would prefer a lighter trigger for single action, but I can certainly live with the trigger being as such. Double action is a very long pull. My wife cannon actuate the trigger on double action. My guess is 12 pounds, but I have no way of verifying this.

Let me know if you have any other questions. And sorry for the wall of text.

 

[MCgunner]

Why bother with those puny .410 slugs? I think a .22 has more energy from a handgun. Well, maybe not, but it's a close race with a .32ACP for sure. The thing will shoot serious ammo. It's called .45 Colt. Don't need that monster cylinder to shoot .45 Colt, but it's the only ammo I'd trust on a human attacker from the gun. The 000 buck I might consider in a thin walled apartment. I wouldn't shoot .410 slugs in a real .410, let alone one with a 2" barrel. Out of a 28" barrel, it makes around 500 ft lbs, but with an 88 grain slug whose sectional density has to be as low as projectiles from firearms get.

I'll keep my Taurus 85SSUL, thanks. It is smaller, pocket sized, and 17 ounces and +P .38 is a lot more pop than anything from a .410.

 

[Brink]

Next week I'm going to test some 45LC. And my carry load is the Buck, not slugs. The group that I posted with the buckshot was not the best group it has ever shot either, just the one that I shot for record. I observed that I would get a buckshot group like the picture above about half the time, and the other half like the picture below.


Target by kamelean, on Flickr

 

[MCgunner]

Well, up close, the 000 should be okay. I'd use it in a thin walled apartment to limit penetration with misses. Slugs won't be accurate and accuracy from the .45 Colt will be lessened to a degree by all the free bore. However, it'll probably be plenty accurate enough for self defense to 15 yards. I know it'll be less than stellar from experience with a .410/.45 Colt barrel on my Contender. That gun is capable of 1 MOA in a normal caliber/barrel. 8 MOA was the best I could get out of it with .45 Colt, but that's still 2" at 25 yards for groups. I would not expect any judge to match a Cotender's accuracy, but it should probably be 3-4" at 25 yards accurate off a rest at best. At least even though your barrel is short, what with the length of the cylinder, the sight radius is ample. That's so-so duty carry accuracy, but it'll get the job done, don't need any more accuracy than that.

 

[weregunner]

Nice report Brink.

I'll be looking for the .45 Colt report.

 

[TennJed]

The pictures do speak louder than words. They firmly reinforce my view that the Judge concept is silly. It makes a lousy handgun capable of extremely sub-par accuracy, and an even worse shotgun.

Good thing you are not required to own one.

Nice review Brink, keep us updated. Mine (steel not poly) is comparable to my Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel at 20 yards with 45 colt. Plenty good enough for me. I have yet to shoot any 410s out of it. I got it mainly for fun and I love reloading the 45colt. I was suprised at how accurate it is though

 

[Nushif]

Seven yards single action slow fire?
Just wanna reconfirm that one, because the ones I shot were miles more accurate than that.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Keep in mind folks that the Judge is designed as a point defense, SD weapon. Period. It's not a target pistol, it's not a "skeet" pistol, it's not a cowboy action shooting pistol, you won't use it to shoot the hostage taker from behind the hostage at 50 yards. It's a tool for dealing with vermin ... 4 legged, no legged and two legged.

98%+ of all SD shootings take place at 10 FEET or less, not YARDS. Think "bad breath range". Honestly, testing a Judge at 25 yards is like testing a 22lr at 500 ... it's out of their design realm.

If you shoot someone at 25 YARDS and try to claim "self defense", you are going to have a serious uphill battle.

The fact that it's power falls off quickly with distance is, in my mind, a PLUS for an SD weapon. When that lead leaves the barrel, it's your problem, where ever it ends up. When your misses from your 9mm or .45 acp go skipping off through the neighborhood (most SD shootings are three shots, or less, of which two miss) you are responsible for where ever they end up. That could be a tree, side of a house, or that red headed kid on the monkey bars at the playground down the block.

The other plus is firing a pattern rather than a single projectile. If I'm shooting a 45, I've got a single projectile less than 1/2 wide that I need to make intersect with the target, which will likely be moving, in what will for sure be a chaotic situation. I think it's safe to assume that if I've got a pattern of multiple projectiles 12 - 18 inches wide (ie, 24 to 36 TIMES the size of the .45), I've got a much better chance of getting a "hit" .. and I'll take a hit with even a single 000 buckshot ball over a miss with a 45 any day of the week. If I can hit them in 3 to 5 different places, all the same time, so much the better.

 

[V1ROT8]

In the home or up close and personal is where the 410 shells prove their worth. My Judge is always available in my home.

 

[T Bran]

Does anyone have experience with the longer barrels ?
Just wondering if they have an effect on velocity and or group size.
T

 

[Fiv3r]

Excellent pics. Thanks I'll admit that I took the Poly Public Defender plunge last week. Do I have "better" guns? sure. Is the PD the best go-to gun for SD, I guess that depends but I'm guessing not. I bought it because it was under 400 bones, it looked like fun to shoot, it might be nice weather resistant critter gun for the cabin (snakes, skunks, and coyotes are free to live and let live unless they come mucking about when my toddler daughter is within range), and I think it looks kinda cool with it's fugly chunky frame...but hey, i think Glocks have a purpose driven beauty

I find the explosion vs. kick to be manageable. The push back reminds me of black powder on steroids, but the polymer frame did make the felt recoil a little more noticeable. I wouldn't call it painful, but you could tell you're shooting a snubbie with a stubby grip.

In short, I can't find much to not like about this gun. It was affordable, it shoots a lot of different types of ammo, the ammo I have shot out of it has only been the handgun designed type and seems to pattern pretty well for what it is. I've only shot it out to 7ish yards because that's the optimal range for its design. It's the same distance I practice with my LCP and LCR for similar reasons. In the heat of the moment, I actually feel a little bit better about my chances of stopping a fight while under stress with the PD from that distance as the 000 buck seems to be at least marginally forgiving to a near miss if it lacks laserbeam precision.

If you understand the Judge for what it is, then it's not a bad gun. The problem is that you get two extremes: The folks that think it's the be-all end-all best SD shooter out there because it can blow up watermelons, and the folks that think that any kind of shot out of a Judge is just going to piss off an assailant instead of taking the fight out of him.

I'm in the middle of this. I think the Judge (if proven to function reliably...which is a Taurus issue at times) is a decent mediocre gun for trail hiking (not bear territory or anything silly) where you can load it up to fit your needs (snakes, varmints, vagrants, etc) and certainly a better carry piece than a .25 or .32...especially if you load it with decent .45 Colt. While it won't be the first gun I go running for at sign of trouble, I don't feel undergunned grabbing it in the middle of the night if it's loaded with 000 buck.

It's a love it or hate it revolver to a certain degree. I know that after playing with it and carrying it for a bit, I certainly don't regret my purchase.

 

[T.R.]

Thank you for sharing such an informative & interesting post!

TR

 

[stolivar]

this is what my governor does like his

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_iJ34EHuQs&feature=related





steve

 

[DANO 308]

Great information. I too have a Judge Public Defender (Steel not Poly). I love mine! There are two things I will say though:

1) You really shouldn't shoot slugs through it. They are actually a .410" diameter and the barrel of the judge is .45". Kinda like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.

2) If you shoot yours as much as I like to, you quickly discover that 45 Long Colts are a little spendy and reloading info is pretty much non-existant on the web. You can find Super Blackhawk and Thompson Contender loads all day howver none for the Judge. I have tried several different loads and the one that seems to be the closest to the Winchester Super X 250 gn cowboy action lead flat nose loads is - 5.5 gn Titegroup with a 250 gn round nose lead bullet and a winchester for magnum of standard pistol loads primer. This gave me pretty consistant velicities of around 1050 fps. So yeah they're a little faster than the cowboy loads. I've also loaded a 185gn Hornaday XTP bullet on this too as a little bit more serious round, however the lead round noses you can get for around $50 per 500 vs $33 per 100 for the XTP's.

Enjoy!!

 

[Brink]

I'm heading to the range tomorrow again, and I'll take a few more pics. My wife is gonna go and see if she can get a pic of me under recoil. Also, I'm stopping by the sporting goods store to snag some 45LC to sling downrange.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Does anyone have experience with the longer barrels ?
Just wondering if they have an effect on velocity and or group size.
T

The longer the barrel, the more "donut" pattern you get out of the shot, and the faster it spreads out. Why ... I figure 'cause the rifling in the barrel has longer to get the shot column to spinning on it's way out.
Odd as it sounds, the shorter shoot tighter patterns.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Great information. I too have a Judge Public Defender (Steel not Poly). I love mine! There are two things I will say though:

1) You really shouldn't shoot slugs through it. They are actually a .410" diameter and the barrel of the judge is .45". Kinda like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.

2) If you shoot yours as much as I like to, you quickly discover that 45 Long Colts are a little spendy and reloading info is pretty much non-existant on the web. You can find Super Blackhawk and Thompson Contender loads all day howver none for the Judge. I have tried several different loads and the one that seems to be the closest to the Winchester Super X 250 gn cowboy action lead flat nose loads is - 5.5 gn Titegroup with a 250 gn round nose lead bullet and a winchester for magnum of standard pistol loads primer. This gave me pretty consistant velicities of around 1050 fps. So yeah they're a little faster than the cowboy loads. I've also loaded a 185gn Hornaday XTP bullet on this too as a little bit more serious round, however the lead round noses you can get for around $50 per 500 vs $33 per 100 for the XTP's.

Enjoy!!

You don't need a specific "Judge" load ... any 45 Colt load that does not say RUGER ONLY will do.
Personally I shoot a lot of 255 gr lead Keith bullets over 6gr of Green Dot (ya, green dot, go figure). Cheap to load up, goes BANG! right nice, accurate, and doesn't beat me up.
Then there are the 250 gr Metal Jacket hollow points that I send screaming out of my Rossi M92 at 2100+ fps ... but that's a whole nuther story!

 

[Brink]

I'm waiting on the wife to get home, then we're heading to the range for more target time. I snagged some 45LC while I was out today, so we'll see what develops.

 

[Brink]

Follow up review:

I took the Judge out again today, and had quite a bit more fun. I shot with my wife, and 2 other guys at the range. I shot 2 IPDA guns, and a steel challenge 22/45.

The Judge performed well again today. First target today is another Buckshot target. Federal Premium 2 1/2 inch 000 Buckshot. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/533166/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-2-1-2-000-buckshot-4-pellets-box-of-20. Target was shot at 7 yards, single action, 2 hands.


Buckshot 2 by kamelean, on Flickr

Second target is 45LC. The only 45LC ammo my local sporting goods store had today was Hornady Frontier Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 255 Grain Lead Flat Nose. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/465448/hornady-frontier-ammunition-45-colt-long-colt-255-grain-lead-flat-nose-box-of-20. Mild recoil, good accuracy. Again, shot at 7 yards standing, 2 handed, single action. I was shooting at a full sized silhouette target, aiming at the number 7. 4 shots on the right, pulled one on the left.


45LC by kamelean, on Flickr

As promised, I had my wife shoot a video of me so you could see the Judge under recoil. First 2 shots are 2 handed single action. Next 2 shots are 1 handed single action. Last shot is 1 handed, double action. The recoil on the 3rd and 4th shot looks exaggerated because of the follow-through. Recoil is comparable to a hot 357 load. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhZm7a9Mj6w

To end this review, I chose a picture of the last target my wife and I shot. Zombie target, 7 yards. 1 Buckshot to the head of the Zombie, and my wife took care of the Zombie dog with her 22.


Zombie target by kamelean, on Flickr

I hope you enjoyed my review of the Taurus Judge Public Defender Poly. I look forward to your questions.

 

[weregunner]

Nice report!

Like the pics as well.
Thanks for the writeup.

 

[husbandofaromanian]

I own a Public Defender (Judge). When I bought it, it had a loose cylinder. I sent it to Taurus and they sent it back good-to-go. Again with a loose cylinder. I shoot the 000 Federal shell. I believe this is a serious self defense firearm with the 000 shell. Those four balls will probably not exit the targets body, making the target absorb all of the energy.

My Judge is one of my favorite firearms. I just worry about the loose cylinder. As for people telling me I made the wrong decision about what gun to buy, I get that all the time with my .223 subsonic (suppressed TC Contender pistol).