Taurus PT92 vs Beretta 92

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Nightcrawler, Jul 3, 2006.

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  1. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    Ripoff?

    By that same definition, Springfield Armory, Kimber, and lord knows how many others are just ripping off Colt. And let's not get into AR-15 manufacturers!

    Taurus bought the rights to produce Beretta clones fair and square. Can't hold it against them for doing so.

    Someone previously said that Beretta was an innovator...well, as of late, it seems they've stopped innovating. Until very recently, they had few new designs, and some of their attempts to improve current ones (like the Vertec) didn't fly.

    Their PX4 pistol is an attempt to take back a share of the LE market. It's a pretty standard Cop Gun; plastic, ugly, mushy striker-fired or striker-esque trigger (on one version, at least).

    I think they should just update the Beretta 92. Imagine a Beretta 92 with interchangable (alloy, not plastic) backstraps, a frame mounted safety (cocked & locked, or manual decock) or a frame mounted decocker, mounting rail, etc. Expand the magazine, see if you can't cram 18 or 19 rounds in there without it sticking out too far. Make the pistol hold a lot of rounds for being so big. Could probably get 12 or 13 in the .40 version. Beefed up Brigadier slide.

    That'd be a nice pistol, and it'd be competitive for what the LE market wants these days.
     
  2. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    Taurus never said that they didn't copy the Beretta 92. As a matter of fact, that story about them buying the Beretta plant in Brazil is true- the early PT92 was a carbon copy of what Beretta themselves churned out on the same tooling in the same building.

    Beretta considered Taurus' purchase of the plant as being better than shutting the plant down and removing the tooling. No royalties were ever required, nor were they requested (at least in the original transaction, I have no knowledge of anything that happened later, but Taurus has never paid any).

    Methinks Beretta decided that those who were looking for a Beretta wouldn't buy something from Brazil, so their margins were in no danger. I would bet that over the years, they have been proven right- precious few sales were lost, and over time, the people who bought a PT92 may have decided to go get a "real" 92F.
     
  3. Tecolote

    Tecolote Member

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    Tons of misinformation folks, Forjas Taurus bought the plant and paid for the rights to manufacture a 92 clone. They paid roylaties and couldn't sell outside Brazil for 10 years. The patent on the 92 and 92S-1 have long since expired, if Norinco wanted they could start manfacturing them tomorrow and Beretta couldn't do squat.

    As for Beretta losing precious few sales, that has nothing to do with it. Taurus' frame mounted safety and cocked and locked feature isn't offered by Beretta. It's not just people looking for a better bargain that buy Taurus, it's also people that dislike the Beretta's slide mounted safety.
     
  4. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    The stuff I posted (other than that which was my own opinion) was found through a brief internet search. Part of it was via a PT92 review on Taurus' own website.

    But it doesn't really matter to me either way; I'm not interested in a 92F or PT92.
     
  5. edison

    edison Member

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    Nightcrawler...

    The decision to go with a Beretta or a Taurus probably comes down to your wallet and YOUR gut feeling. If you really want the Beretta, get the Beretta. If you buy the Taurus you may, in time, question that decision -- I call it Beretta envy. I own a Taurus PT92 and a PT99. Still, I would not dissuade you from the Beretta purchase. If the $200 difference means that much to you, then the decision is made. I don't think you can go wrong with either pistol. I may, in time, buy a Beretta. Not because I need it, but to scratch that itch. The 92 platform is large for my hand, but it is very soft shooting, and extremely reliable. I used my PT92 for my CCW course because it was THE most reliable pistol I owned at the time AND I shot it well. I do prefer the frame-mounted controls. I can reach them with my thumb, whereas I have to change my grip to reach the slide mounted safety/decocker on the Beretta (small hands). It would be nice to say shoot both and make a decision, but in my neck of the woods it's the Taurus in the rental case not the Beretta. Same for the sale case, the Beretta in on the top shelf, and the Taurus is on the second shelf. It's easy to guess which one has the higher profit margin. Either way you'll end up with an excellent pistol. Just try not to second guess yourself. :)

    edison
     
  6. berettaman

    berettaman Member

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    Just to clear things up a bit.
    At the time of the sale of the Beretta factory to Brazil,there was only one model of Beretta 92 and it was a frame mounted safety with that you could carry cocked and locked.No special modifications were needed to fulfill the contract.The Brazillian plant was pretty much like BUSA is today.It was run by the mother company,using their machines,engineers, and staffed by Brazillian workers.When the contract ended,Beretta "sold" the plant and plans to the 92 to Mr.Taurus.The mother company had already began design and development on the 92S in Italy so the old machinery and plans for the old 92 was not worth shipping all back home.

    Layman's terms: The Studabaker Wagon Company giving the plans and woodworking tools to the Rideright Buggywhip Company. Who needed wagons when automobiles were now available? :neener:
     
  7. Tecolote

    Tecolote Member

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    You're correct. Thanks for pointing out the error.
     
  8. Rumble

    Rumble Member

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    Nightcrawler, Beretta seems to be updating the 92, with something called the "90two". Alloy frame, interchangeable grip units (although not alloy, as far as I can tell), high-cap (17 rds 9mm; 12 rds .40), etc. If you had not seen it yet, you can look at the website at www.beretta90two.com.

    Granted, it looks a little like the Px4 with the spacey styling on the grip and frame, but...well, there it is. I think it looks pretty good. One day I may just own one.
     
  9. DAVE RICHARDS

    DAVE RICHARDS Member

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    I have both a Beretta and a PT92. The Beretta is an Elite so it really is not fair to compare it to the PT92. The trigger was worked over by Ernest Langdon. It's a work of art. It is also a G model which means it is a decock only. I had Mr. Langdon install a short trigger on it. The reach for the DA pull and the big grip made the gun difficult for me to shoot well at first.
    Now having said all that I must say I love my PT92. It has a better trigger from the box than the Beretta. I got a two tone for $250.00 less than the basic Beretta. It has close to 4000 rounds through it now without a single malfunction. It is very accurate. And I much, and I mean much prefer the frame mounted safety with the cocked and locked option. Cocked and locked changes the whole nature of the big pistol. It makes the trigger reach quite managable for almost any sized hand. Plus t has 17+1 rounds of ammo. And unlike Beretta it is still using all metal parts. If you must have a Beretta buy one. It does have a slightly nicer finish than the Taurus. But that has not made it one bit more reliable or accurate. I trust my life to this gun with no problems.
     
  10. gunlover_06

    gunlover_06 Member

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    ALBANIAN & M KALISHNAKOV

    FIRST AND FORMOST THE TAURUS IS AS EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS THE BERRETA AND SECOND THEY DID NOT STEAL OR RIP ANYONE OFF THE FACT IS THAT BERRETA OWNED TAURUS AT ONE TIME AND WHEN THEY DECIDED TO INVEST MORE MONEY INTO THE BERRETTA DESIGN THAN THE TAURUS THIRD THE REASON TAURUS GUNS ARE LESS EXPENSIVE IS BEACAUSE THEY :banghead: :fire: BUILD EVERYTHING IN HOUSE AND NOT USE OUTSIDE SUPPLIERS FOR THEIR PARTS CASE IN POINT THEIR NEW 1911 45 IS ALL BUILT IN HOUSE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE HIENE SIGHTS COMPARE $500.00 TAXES INCLUDED FOR THE TAURUS AS COMPARED TO SAY S&W OR EVEN KIMBER WHICH I THINK ARE VERY OVER PRICED JMHO:neener: :banghead:
     
  11. Big Mike

    Big Mike Member

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    Having owned both the PT92 and a Beretta Brig both in 9mm, if I were to buy again, I would get the Taurus for the way the safety works. I had 0 malfunctions of any kind in both. I'll agree that the finish on the Beretta is much more refined, but when it comes to shooting rounds, reliably and accurately, they run neck and neck. I think much of the Taurus criticism comes from the other pistol/revolver product lines (which do have issues). Mike
     
  12. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    I prefer frame-mounted safeties and would've purchased the PT92. The only I reason I didn't is that I found a used Beretta 92 Brig. SS first.
     
  13. Vic

    Vic Member

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    Taurus...forget it.

    I've owned the 92, the 100, and several types revolvers in different calibers. My Intratec AB10 hits more consistantly than any Taurus. I don't have to tell you about Intratec, I'm sure you've read. I prefer my AB10 to the PT92 hands down for accuracy, feeding etc. If I were going to buy a Beretta type pistol...It would be a Beretta...period. Taurus isn't worth their weight in scrap metal...any of them. Interesting note...I couldn't fire hand loaded 115grHP with out jamming in the PT92, my AB10 eats them up and asks for more (maybe I got lucky and got an AB10 that actually works).:uhoh:
     
  14. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Incorrect.
    Also incorrect.
     
  15. orangeninja

    orangeninja Member

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    Whew..........there's a lot of misinformation here. I had a big friggin' post prepared with the history of Taurus etc..........but I lost it in a power drop and nobody cares enough.

    Suffice to say, I've owned and shot multiple examples of each.....I'll take the Taurus.

    Pros:

    Taurus has a lifetime warranty.......say what you will about their customer service, they'll fix it.

    Taurus has better/more progressive metalurgy......at least historically.

    Taurus has stuck closer to the origional design.

    Taurus is less expensive.

    The safety is in the right place, I've never accidentally disabled my weapon by using it. If you are worried about that, switch the grips to the AF grips that will disable the decock feature.

    Cons

    Taurus does not have the chromed barrel that Beretta has. But we don't shoot corrosive ammo do we?

    I cannot carry a Taurus with any PD I know of.....except south of the border.

    Facts:

    Beretta USA is a US business concern, not the same as Beretta Italy.

    Taurus used to make Beretta's under license, kind of like Beretta USA does now.

    It was observed then, as now, that the superior Beretta's are the Italian made ones. The American and Taurus (Brazil) one's are neck and neck.

    The Beretta is a bit tighter in fit and finish....but not by a huge margin.

    Compare the price of a Taurus against other weapons of that price range and they simply blow the competition away.

    The Taurus 92 and Beretta 92 are a proven design that have been around for a few decades and both perform well.
     
  16. DougW

    DougW Member

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    Well, I guess it is descided then. Buy a Glock!:D :what: :D :banghead: :D :scrutiny:


    :eek: :confused:
     
  17. 03Shadowbob

    03Shadowbob Member

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    I have the Taurus and have shot approx. 2,000 rounds through it. not one jam or misfire. However, the range owner says I am one of the lucky ones who actually got a decent Taurus.
    There is a difference in fit and finish for sure. It is pretty accurate too and I would / do trust my life with it but I'll take my 1911 that may grandfather gave me from WW2 anyday over the Taurus.
     
  18. gunlover_06

    gunlover_06 Member

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    johnksa

    please tell me or us what was incorrect about taurus building all thier parts in house this may not have been true years ago but i know on the new 1911 45 they have that every part of that gun was built in house with the exception of the heine sights if i am wrong please explain.. Thanks for any info :neener:
     
  19. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    I didn't say they don't build all their parts in house. They may or they may not--I don't know.

    But I do know that is not why they are less expensive. Taurus guns are less expensive because they are manufactured in Brazil where the labor costs are MUCH reduced compared to Italy or the U.S.
     
  20. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Always an interesting debate. I own a PT-92 AFS-D purchased new in late 1991 (when Taurus first started the decocker models). Back then, the bluing was good and the flats of the slides highly polished. This PT-92 has seen many, many thousands of rounds through it. Changed the recoil springs only once (not because anything wasn't working well, just because it seemed like the time to do so). My Taurus is as accurate, or more accurate, than two of my three Beretta 92FS pistols and easily as reliable.

    As one who came up in the autopistol world on the 1911, I also much prefer Taurus' intelligent safety system. Without the recurved frontstrap, the grip of the PT-92 is also slightly smaller in girth. Although I really love my Berettas, I actually shoot my Taurus more often, and its value in my collection holds as much esteem as my Berettas.

    Statements such as this are just so much bull. I made a living for 26 years carrying 1911s and the M-9; I think I know my autopistols by now (although my current employer issues me an HK). The PT-92 is not only an exceptionally reliable autopistol (mine is going on 15 years old, heavily used, and never once malfunctioned), it's one of the best values out there. Plus, it's a pretty good-lookin' piece in its own right.
     
  21. otomik

    otomik Member

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    I like buying from family businesses that have been working on their craft for 500 years.
    I like Italy and Italian food and style (the american ones are made in maryland, tauruses all come from brazil)
    I like the history and notoriaty of the Beretta 92, the taurus is similar but won't satisfy.
     
  22. al&guns

    al&guns Member

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    Taurus

    Beretta vs. Taurus:
    Have both, 92 Beretta and PT92/PT100. PT100(.40S&W) is the more accurate and it was a second had purchase. Still shoots great. As for the 9mm 92 and PT92, the Taurus is more accirate. Beretta is still a good gun and I would feel comfortable using it for self defense. Hear noise that army wants a new gun in .45 and don't like Beretta 9mm, have heard this many times before and now again, is there something about the Beretta? A bit more accurate are my CZs. Taurus just dosn't have the name as Beretta and therefore can charge more. Remember, both guns are made on Beretta machines.
    Al
     
  23. orangeninja

    orangeninja Member

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    Everyone would do well to realize that Taurus does not have the name that Beretta has in NORTH AMERICA!!!

    In South America the PT92 is a standard issue sidearm for many military and law enforcement units and has replaced the 1911 much like here.

    The irony is, I'll bet nobody is running around trashing Imbel for copying the JMB 1911 frame design, especially since Springfield is marketing them so well........so what's the problem with a Brazillian 9mm?

    Just a note of curious fact........Taurus also makes submachine guns and machine pistols for the military and police, I don't know about the quality, but they seem to have maintained a steady govt. contract for South American concerns.

    Let's not also forget that the holding company for Taurus and Smith&Wesson used to be the exact same company......so I guess it's safe to say Taurus does NOT copy S&W designs since many of the modern designs are probably derivative of the Bangor Punta concern.

    So......just in this short discussion it could be safe to say Taurus has manufactured, shared technology or simply produced parts for Smith & Wesson and Beretta. There are probably more, but thinking of Taurus as a "cheap knockoff copy" is short sighted and lacks business and global perspective.

    I wasn't going to toss anectdotal evidence out there, but since everyone else is............the range I go to has 3 Beretta 92s which are popular rentals, yet they always break and the range guys HATE them. The Taurus on the other hand seems to be a winner in their opinion. But what's that worth?
     
  24. otomik

    otomik Member

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    a roll of my eyes :rolleyes: perhaps the Taurus is just used less often.

    yes the brazilian police use imbel and taurus products, it just means the government wants to be uncompetitive socialists and keep their money in brazil. France has done the same in the past, in fact the Browning Hi-Power lost in competition with one of their French pistols the Mle 1935.

    The Brazilians use both the Beretta 92, PT92 and a 9mm doublestack 1911, look it up.

    Springfield has an american flag waving image, they really don't want you to know their 1911 parts are from brazil and their XDs are from Croatia. Even so it's probably more acceptable because the 1911 has been around a long time and Colt doesn't make a competitive product anymore.
     
  25. 45Fever

    45Fever Member

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    I use to own a Beretta 92FS which I sold,and I now own a Taurus PT99 AFS which I prefere way more.I like the frame mounted safety over the slide mounted which I hate,and I find mine shoots just as good,and fit&finish are beautiful on my Taurus.I stopped carrying my Glock 23 and now have been carrying my Taurus PT99.Of course when the summer comes around I will go back to my G23 because of it's size which I can conceal in a IWB holster.I picked mine up last week for $300.00 with 1 15rnd mag in mint condition.

    I put 200rnds through her at the range and I just tore a hole through the center of my target with her,and I was able to get realy fast accurate follow up shots,much faster then I do with my G23.I would buy this pistol again in a heart beat if I didn't have one.I'm going to stock up on some hi caps at the next gun show in March.
    20265-1-1.gif
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2007
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