Tax dodgers taunt police from hilltop compound

[Elza]

grampster: I'd be willing to bet you that if all the Revenooers left the scene and called off this zoo those dangerous scofflaws could be taken into custody very easily at a later date without any bruhawhaw.

The Fed's can't have fun without publicity.

 

[Smurfslayer]

simple solution

If they don't want to be brought to prison, bring the prison to them. Just surround the "compound" and buildit into a prison for the next 63 months.

 

[R127]

So you're telling me a bunch of men who work in the same field and building belong to the same club? This is shocking. Of course they do, they probably bbq with each others families on the weekend, play golf together, and are members of the elk, moose, masons, or The Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo, whatever is big in the area. A social club is not indicitative of a grand controlling conspiracy theory. Thats up to the grand poobah to decide.

Sure, unless you realize that it is wrong for a private organization like the masons to have taxpayer-funded statues, frescoes, facades and other architectural features that specifically represent their group festooning a public courthouse. Or the fact that you don't get anywhere inside or outside the courtroom unless you're a member. They don't keep their business and personal lives seperate. That is true of many organizations in many fields and it is wrong in each case.

Grand controlling conspiracy theories are your contribution so I can't really respond directly to that concept but I can tell you the masons have disporportionate representation in a field that should be void of such fraternization and private influence. If by "grand controling conspiracy theories" you mean they run the world, then they don't though many of their members would like to think so.

 

[Soybomb]

Grand controlling conspiracy theories are your contribution

Thats the accusation of the people we're talking about in this thread.

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=a02db0e8-8042-474e-8a82-1fb5dc2f6306

The Browns believe the IRS and the federal income tax are part of a deliberate plot perpetrated by Freemasons to control the American people and eventually the world.

 

[Elza]

R127: If by "grand controling conspiracy theories" you mean they run the world, then they don't though many of their members would like to think so.

I must not travel in the right Masonic circles. I've been a Mason for over 20 years and I've never run across any Brother with that mindset. However, the number of people that think we do are multitude.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Boston was about taxation without representation. We have representation.

Well thats certainly debatable.

 

[R127]

I must not travel in the right Masonic circles. I've been a Mason for over 20 years and I've never run across any Brother with that mindset. However, the number of people that think we do are multitude.

Yup, must not. I've known quite a few who did. Most of my family are masons, my great grandfather was 33rd degree. Quite a few of my former co-workers, too. Known a lot of eastern star women, as well. I'm familiar with masons in daily life even though I turned down the invitation.

Of course not all masons are created equal by any stretch of the imagination. You've got everything from the corrupt court system here in Tampa to some good ol' boys who mostly gather to drink and hold the aforementioned bbq's. YMMV depending on local demographics.

 

[Thin Black Line]

All I know is...that one guy has a sweet .50 cal. Scroll down to the bottom where it says Jose Gonzalez Stands With His Son.

Hence the Fed's armored vehicles.

When people rant about Freemasons secretly running the judiciary, the Illuminati and comparing their situation as "1776 all over again" they can safely be labeled as loonies.

I must've missed that at the last Lodge meeting. I can tell you the we are no
longer running the show --if we were, you would have the America the Founders
envisioned.

Now the Eurotrash globalist 322 Illuninati Molech-loving scum on the other hand,
they are what's really wrong with this country

 

[Matt King]

Please keep this thread on-topic.

That's debatable.

Explain to me how I don't have representation. I voted for the reps that I wanted to represent me. That's representation.

 

[Caimlas]

From behind the 8-inch concrete walls of their 110-acre hilltop compound

Uh, if I recall correctly:

1) This is their home. It's just a normal freakin' house, not a compound.
2) 8" concrete? Isn't that the standard depth for basement concrete walling?

Goddamn media!

 

[Titan6]

Somehow this was left out. Paints a little different picture does it not?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_Tax_Evaders.html

Ruby Ridge's Weaver offers support for N.H. tax-evading couple
By PHILIP ELLIOTT
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

PLAINFIELD, N.H. -- Randy Weaver, the symbol of everything the government hopes to avoid with convicted tax evaders Ed and Elaine Brown, offered advice to the fugitives and warnings to federal agents at the Browns' fortified home on Monday.

Weaver's wife and son and a deputy U.S. marshal were killed during the infamous Ruby Ridge shootout with federal agents in Idaho in 1992. He visited the Browns' hilltop home to raise the specter of the botched federal raid and lend his celebrity to the tax evaders' cause.

"We said, 'This is it, we're not going to take it any more' ... This is serious stuff. Bring it on," Weaver said during a news conference on the Browns' front porch. "I ain't afraid of dying no more. I'm curious about the afterlife. And I'm an atheist."

During the sometimes hostile news conference that had Weaver and Ed Brown shouting insults at reporters, the speakers and their supporters repeated their claims that income taxes are voluntary, and any tax on labor amounts to slavery.

"The bottom line is: Show us the law, we will pay what you ask," said Ed Brown, who had a gun tucked in his waistband. "They can't do it, folks."

The home, which Brown calls a castle, has 8-inch-thick concrete walls, a turret that offers a 360-degree view of the property and a driveway that is sometimes barricaded with SUVs. The 110-acre compound is self-sufficient and is capable of running entirely through solar, wind and geothermal energies.

Officials cut power and telephone service last week in an effort to ratchet up pressure on the couple convicted of scheming to avoid federal income taxes by hiding $1.9 million of income between 1996 and 2003. The Browns said they hadn't noticed the changes, they can survive on generators and they have 103 wooded acres to keep them warm this winter.

Ed Brown has threatened "guerrilla warfare" and retaliation against those who played a role in his conviction. He skipped his trial.

"Do not, under any circumstances, make any attempt on this land. We will not accept any tomfoolery by any criminal element, be it federal, state or local," Ed Brown said. "We either walk out of here free or we die."

"If they come in, we're dead. That's it," Elaine Brown said later. "We will not be arrested. We will not volunteer to go into their prison for a non-crime. We have committed no crime."

The Browns' claim that the federal income tax is not legitimate has drawn support from so-called "patriot" and militia groups. Supporters from as far away as Texas also have brought weapons and supplies.

The Browns were joined Monday by several of their supporters, waving "Don't Tread on Me" flags and "Don't Murder the Browns for Money" signs.

It's this support that prompted a panic in Plainfield two weeks ago, when heavily armed police surrounded the Browns' home while they seized commercial property the couple owned in a neighboring town. SWAT teams, military and explosives vehicles marshaled in the tiny town and sparked rumors of a raid. Neighbors were rousted from their homes and planes flying overhead were ordered away.

U.S. marshals said it was only for surveillance.

Brown has warned against any action.

"If they decide to make that move against me, go ahead," Brown said in past interviews. "Watch. It ain't going to be as easy as they think it's going to be. Believe me."

But marshals insist there are no plans to raid the home.

U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier released a statement Monday saying he remained hopeful the situation can be settled without violence.

"The U.S. Marshals Service is committed to resolving this peacefully," the statement read. "Edward and Elaine Brown can end this today by doing the right thing, which is to call us and make arrangements for their surrender."

Does not sound like he is planning on surviving the ulitmate raid. The media is often blamed for pushing Reno into making the botched assault at Waco. Maybe the plan is to talk about Paris Hilton until this goes away on it's own?

 

[Kentak]

'Splain this to me. They were found guilty by a jury trial and sentenced. Why should the sentence not be carried out?

K

 

[Titan6]

And here is the article where they blame Freemason plots for their problems.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3290003&page=1

Carrying a pistol in his waistband, Brown also insisted that he could not receive a fair trial in a federal court because "the court system falls under freemasonry."

"There [are] no longer any lawful courts. The Freemasons have taken over our nation. … [Freemasons want] to take over our nation and all nations on the planet," Brown said.

and a confusing statement by the federales

U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier made an effort to starkly contrast the actions of the Marshals with those of the ATF agents who besieged Ruby Ridge in 1992. In addition to Weaver's son, one federal agent was killed in that incident.

"There is no standoff and the house is not surrounded." Monier told ABC News.com. "We have no intention of assaulting the house or engaging in a violent confrontation."

You can even vote on whether they should raid or not. Right now the No's are winning by a wide margin. I also think a raid would go poorly with losses on both sides.

So what do they intend to do? Here is an interesting video on the subject.

http://igottarant.com/showthread.php?t=41421

Interesting that a man gets tased and strip searched for walking a dog. It is not clear by the statement but it seems he was not on the property.

Curiouser and curiouser....

 

[gezzer]

Boston was about taxation without representation. We have representation.

It's worse with the representations!

What bothers me as a NH resident is why is a Ma Swat team in our state? Breaking all kinds of NH laws just being here. They should have been arrested and all the equipment seized the same as we did to the MA trooper’s video taping at the I93 liquor store.

As for the Browns I have a very hard time feeling sympathy for them. He is an out of work exterminator and she was a professional in the dental care industry. I’ll bet the moron husband talked her into trouble.

They owe more in income tax than my wife and I will make in 10-15 years. We paid ours they should pay theirs. Show me the law is Bull!@#$ now they are going to be shown the law.

 

[Malice]

Two things:

Soybomb, others-

I do not have any theories about Freemasons running the world. However, the Masons have an interesting history that suggests they are not necessarily quite as placid as you think.

Also-

Can someone give me a 100-word explanation on why the income tax is invalid, in legal terms? Brown says they cant show them the law that says they have to pay taxes. Does he have any valid point?-

 

[REOIV]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixtee...ax_protester_arguments_regarding_ratification

Some tax protesters, conspiracy investigators, and others opposed to income taxes cite what they contend is evidence that the Sixteenth Amendment was never "properly ratified." One such argument is that because the legislatures of various states passed resolutions of ratification with different capitalization, spelling of words, or punctuation marks (e.g. semi-colons instead of commas) from the text proposed by Congress, those states' ratifications were invalid. A related argument is that various states illegally violated procedural requirements of their constitutions when passing their ratification resolutions. Another argument made by some tax protesters regards Ohio, one of the states listed as ratifying the amendment. They contend that because Congress did not pass an official proclamation recognizing Ohio's date of admission (1803) to statehood until 1953 (see Ohio Constitution), Ohio was not a state until 1953 (and, therefore, could not have ratified the Sixteenth Amendment). These and similar arguments have been universally rejected by the courts.

So while the law is on the books they don't recognize it as valid.

It is pointless to even point to the law and say here because they won't recognize the law. So it is technically impossible for the govt to 'show' them anything.

It would be much like a person protesting the NFA by saying the 2nd amendment protects against it and any laws against the 2nd amendment are invalid even though there is case law to the contrary.

 

[Matt King]

Brown says they cant show them the law that says they have to pay taxes. Does he have any valid point?-

Nope.

The Sixteenth Amendment:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

 

[Titan6]

Ahh, here is what the Marshall's plan is:

U.S. Marshal Steve Monier acknowledged Wednesday that waiting out the Browns could take months, but he said time was on authorities' side. He said he hoped prison would seem like an agreeable option for the Browns after a summer without air conditioning and possibly a winter without heat.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/14/national/main2927061.shtml

Here is a picture of the house. I don't think they are going anywhere any time soon. People lived without air conditioning for an awfully long time before we had any. Maybe the cold will drive them out but that place looks like a fortress. I predict they will be there no less than a full year, maybe longer. If they were planning for the seige, and it sure looks like they were than they could have stocked up literally years and years worth of food in there.

 

[Matt King]

If they were planning for the seige, and it sure looks like they were than they could have stocked up literally years and years worth of food in there.

Apparently he has been stocking up on supplies since the 90's.

By SHAWNE K. WICKHAM
New Hampshire Sunday News Staff

Originally published in the New Hampshire Sunday News, Oct. 9, 1994

PLAINFIELD - Edward L. Brown, 52, is a consultant in the extermination business by trade. But the menace he is trying to warn people about these days is of the human variety.

Brown is the spokesman for the Constitution Defense Militia, one of numerous ''unorganized'' citizen militia groups forming around the country in response to what they say is a well-orchestrated and far-reaching conspiracy to deprive Americans of their liberty and even lives.

The New Hampshire Libertarian party will hold a special panel analysis on citizen militias at its annual convention in Merrimack on Oct. 15.

Brown can name names of conspirators - Bill Clinton, George Bush, Janet Reno, Mikhail Gorbachev - and of organizations - The Council on Foreign Relations, the United Nations, the Tri-Lateral Commission, the American Bar Association, the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the CIA and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

He contends the deaths of religious cult members in Switzerland and Canada last week were ''another WACO,'' orchestrated by the CIA. And he believes even the baseball strike was part of a plot to squash anything American.

Brown likens the times we are living in to the years in Europe before World War II. He has 18 months worth of food stored in his basement, and a stockpile of weapons and ammunition. He believes something will trigger a federal takeover of private property, utilities, health facilities and the media, and said the most likely scenario is an economic collapse.

Brown estimated there are five million militia members across the country; in this state, there are 3,000 CDM members, men and women from all walks of life who are ''on standby to lock and load 24 hours a day right now.''

Brown warns there is a second Revolutionary War approaching. But he says this time the citizen patriots have AK-47s.

Brown, who says he is an agnostic, admits it's easy to dismiss him as a nut. He knows that's how the FBI, the Department of Defense and other federal agencies he calls regularly have him pegged.

He contends there are 130 detention centers set up around the country, including one at the former Pease Air Force Base, ready to imprison people like him who resist the government.

Gun control is at the center of the enemies' plan, he explained. He predicts ''blood in the streets'' if the government tries to confiscate guns here.

''There's two freight trains coming down the track full steam ahead. True American citizens like myself will die for my country. We will never release any firearms to the United States.''

An ad in the October 1994 issue of ''Soldier of Fortune magazine'' warns, ''It's Groundhog Day! For those of us living under the shadow of gun control...Hide your weapons WHILE YOU CAN!'' The ''Groundhog,'' an underground storage container big enough for four AR15's, two AK-47s and 2300 rounds of ammunition, costs $94.95.

Brown said the militia is setting up ''Constitutional courts'' in numerous states, including here in New Hampshire, ''for the purpose of taking back America.''

Who will be tried? ''Anybody who commits un-American activity. Anybody who has created insurrection or sedition or conspiracy against the American people.'' And what will the penalty be? ''Whatever the people decide.''

Brown only became involved in the CDM 11 months ago. But ever since he has been unable to enjoy the things he used to, like golfing and fishing.

Brown believes the conspiracy is world-wide; references to a ''New World Order'' set off alarms in militia members. He thinks a confrontation is ''imminent'' and he believes the year 2000 has special significance for ''the bad guys.''

''From now on, as an American citizen under my Constitution, nobody but nobody is going to come into my country and take it down. Nobody's going to destroy that Constitution. And the enemy is within.''

He said the militia has declared New Hampshire a ''free zone,'' neutral territory in which the federal government has no authority. ''All we're looking for is as many people get warned as possible, to protect as many lives as we can before this thing goes down.''

''Freedom is not free. Thomas Jefferson told us every 20 years a little patriot blood must be shed to kill some of the tyrants and keep them in line. We have not done this since the Civil War.''

Brown said he sees no way the conflict will end except in violence. ''Because these people will not quit. The window of oppportunity for them as it approaches is closing because people like me are rising. And the hope is we can open our window more than theirs, so we can swallow them before they swallow us.''

From: http://www.unionleader.com/pda-article.aspx?articleId=fc655466-78cc-455d-8997-9722d450aee1

 

[R127]

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

There are two issues I'm aware of.

1) The definition of income which traditionally does not include monies earned from work which falls under like kind trade, as I recall. Someone more familiar with the UCC could explain it more thoroughly. This is further compounded by the fact that the federal debt notes issued by the FRB and now widely called "dollars" don't even technicaly qualify as real money. Our economy essentially runs on circulating IOU's, not real currency, therefore nobody is earning any monies to be taxed.

2) The circumstances under which the 16th was ratified are shakey

I find the economic and moral objections to notions like property tax and income tax to be more than sufficient.

 

[Titan6]

Now wait a second. What is this?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53862

THE POWER TO DESTROY
Bench warrant issued
for N.H. tax resister
U.S. marshal claims no plan to raid fortress,
but constitutionalist says, 'I'm on high alert'

: January 20, 2007
7:45 p.m. Eastern

© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


Despite days of assurances by U.S. marshals they have no intention to raid the fortified home of a convicted New Hampshire tax resister, a bench warrant unsealed by a federal judge yesterday may indicate authorities are preparing to end a developing standoff.
Ed Brown and his wife, Elaine, of Plainfield, N.H., were convicted Thursday of conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to disguise large financial transactions and structuring.

Brown has said he has no intention of surrendering to authorities and that his fortress-like home – complete with cement walls and a watchtower – is well-stocked with food and capable of generating power from solar and wind sources if authorities cut him off the grid.

"I love my home. It's my castle. There's plenty to do here," Brown told Associated Press by phone yesterday. "It's all set up for me to stay here forever."


Until Judge Steven McAuliffe unsealed the document, marshals had refused to confirm whether an arrest warrant existed for Brown, who quit attending federal court on Jan. 12, the fourth day of the trial. The bench warrant was issued at that time, the Concord, N.H., Monitor reported.

Brown's refusal to pay federal income taxes – he insists the law does not require it – and his determination to defend his freedom have stirred support across the country with anti-tax groups, libertarians and militia supporters. Brown, a constitutionalist, has been active in the militia movement.

"If Mexico came up on my land and tried to take my land, would I not fight?" Brown said. "The United States is the same exact thing as Mexico in this state. It's a fact of law."

Brown's supporters are not only online – the Plainfield home has become a rallying site for many who hope to be able to prevent Brown from being taken into custody.

According to the Claremont, N.H., Eagle Times, Brown has been assured that the government will not try to move onto his 110-acre property and arrest him.

"Right now I still have control," U.S. Marshal Gary DiMartino told Brown. "Nothing is going to happen.

"I'm not going to come there and escalate this. I don't want to come there. Trust me, I don't want to have any confrontation with you."

Despite comparisons made by some to the 1993 Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., Brown called reports he is holed up with armed supporters an exaggeration. Thirty guns that he owned were removed from his house in May after he was ordered to surrender his weapons, reported Associated Press. Brown says he now has only a .45 caliber handgun for his protection and a large box of fireworks.
"They said they have no concern at this time which means to say that I'm on high alert," Brown said.

Mrs. Brown, who attended court for the reading of the verdict, is currently staying with her son in Worcester, Mass., pending the couple's sentencing in April. She is required to wear an electronic monitoring bracelet and says she has no intention of returning to Plainfield.

"I fear for his life, but his honor is more important to him than his life," she told an internet radio host earlier this week. "Thousands of people across the country have called and e-mailed in support of him and his principles."

"... I pray that he will survive this, and that we can be together again in this life; surely we will be together in the next."

 

[Soybomb]

1) The definition of income which traditionally does not include monies earned from work which falls under like kind trade, as I recall.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00000061----000-.html

The circumstances under which the 16th was ratified are shakey

The courts have disagreed and said its valid. Because he disagrees with the decision our process has led to, he should disregard the results?

 

[Titan6]

R127 -

power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived

. May as well say "can not be infringed" it is clear as day the fed has the power to tax income. If you don't like it vote for Ron Paul.

The court has already decided the challenges. If you don't like that well, see above.

 

[Thin Black Line]

May as well say "can not be infringed" it is clear as day the fed has the power to tax income.

Titan6, agreed. Definitely. The issue still becomes one of a "fair" tax:

http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3444419&postcount=18

Taxes are too high. There is no real representation unless you can afford
the expensive plates at the campaign dinners. Last I checked this was in
the 5 figure range for the front tables. This is exactly the kind of thing the
Founders would have been against.

I do not have any theories about Freemasons running the world. However, the Masons have an interesting history that suggests they are not necessarily quite as placid as you think.

Malice, the Freemasons included many individuals who were key players in
the founding of this country (and fighting in the Revolution --as did my
ancestor).

The big initial gripes for people was heavy taxation, attempts to confiscate
arms, and the King's troops searching/detaining people, etc. The court system
was a joke.

If we go back to the Boston Tea Party (um, something about taxes, right?),
you can't ignore the meeting at the Green Dragon Tavern and how the local
Lodge played into this.

I can certainly symphathize w/ Brown on taxes. But given the escalating
circumstances with the feds, this has the potential to end very badly and
become a self-fulfulling prophesy in many ways for both sides (Browns and
the Feds).

The Browns could end up as martyrs in the eyes of some, ignored by many
others, and the Feds will have further justification for restricting the 2A.

High taxes and no guns for the rest of us, right?

 

[Titan6]

There is no real representation unless you can afford
the expensive plates at the campaign dinners. Last I checked this was in
the 5 figure range for the front tables.

Not really.

In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.

The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995.

Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.
Treasury Department analysts credit President Bush's tax cuts with shifting a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers. In 2005, says the Treasury, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect (e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers will rise.


The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will fall from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent.

The share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent of taxpayers will rise from 32.3 percent to 33.7 percent.

The average tax rate for the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers falls by 27 percent as compared to a 13 percent decline for taxpayers in the top 1 percent.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm

So the rich (top 5%) really pay for most everybody. Are taxes too high? Probably. But until we reduce services, transfer payments (handouts) or eliminate debt we are stuck. Keep in mind that the interest on the debt is almost up to one sixth of the federal budget and rising. Once it passes one third (I anticipate this will happen in the next 5-8 years) we will be in big trouble as we will no longer be able to finance our spending. This assumes that the economy does not take a big hit before then.

Now I don't feel sorry for rich people in the least because they pay an amount disproportionate to their income but it seems that everyone wants to shuffle off their portion of the tab to someone else. Why don't we convince our leaders to spend less? Or I would like to see a consumption tax instead. If you catch it at the other end then it is really fair. Don't want to pay taxes? Easy don't buy anything.