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Tax dodgers taunt police from hilltop compound

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Matt King, Jun 21, 2007.

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  1. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    Regardless of your personal thought of constitutional or not, it has been ruled to be constitutional in our court system and they received a fair trial. They are just as guilty of a crime as a drug dealer. I don't like the drug laws but I have to obey them and I am not justified in killing poeple enforcing laws I don't like or don't believe are correct be they about drugs, guns, or taxes as long as the system is fair. Armed revolution is for when the system fails.
     
  2. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    At this point the Brown's are no longer innocent. They have taken up arms because they don't agree with a law on the books. They have refused to appear in court and defend themselves the correct way. At this point they are criminals resisting arrest.
     
  3. helpless

    helpless Member

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  4. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    This report is twenty three years old.
     
  5. helpless

    helpless Member

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    Like I said before, you guys are obviously much smarter than me. so I am going to bow out if this discussion. I will leave you with this.


    "If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power of money should be taken from banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money, are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    Have a great weekend gentlemen I am off to the office to try and get some work done.
     
  6. Kentak

    Kentak Member

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    So, the US Marshals are violating the Constitution by wanting to take into custody two people who have been charged, tried by a jury of their peers, and duly sentenced, how?

    K
     
  7. Cel

    Cel Member

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    Does that necessarily change the fact that this is still going on?
     
  8. helpless

    helpless Member

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    one more thing. I just read this

    Full Article.
     
  9. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    helpless,

    That is very high-road of you. I appreciate that.
     
  10. FeebMaster

    FeebMaster Member

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    It's like the mafia. Guy comes into your business and you pay him your protection money and he probably leaves without a fuss. He's probably a nice enough guy off the job. Probably even has a family and kids. But if the next guy he extorts money from guns him down, you're probably not going to shed any tears for him. It's not like you asked him to show up and demand your money in the first place.

    Personally, I'd feel the same about a drug dealer as someone who didn't pay their taxes.


    What's changed? Government pay off that debt finally?
     
  11. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    The only problems with the Jefferson quote is that the exact opposite has happened since the Fed was established.
     
  12. helpless

    helpless Member

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    Seriously though folks, it's been fun but I have to go to work, If you guys want to keep beating your fist and try to convince everyone that the Ed and Elaine Brown are wrong go ahead and say what you need to and I will chime it later.

    Later.
     
  13. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Many of the facts cited in the 23yr old report are not true any longer. In part because of the facts cited in the report, the entire Internal Revenue Code was rewritten by Congress in 1986 (and signed by Reagan) and the IRC has been amended several times since then.

    To use just one example, the portion of revenue generated by income tax on families earning less than $35,000 is miniscule. The wealthy now pay a much larger portion of income taxes. Just the rewrite that eliminated tax shelters and interest deductions increased the amount the wealthy paid substantially.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  14. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Feeb- A lot. I'd explain but I'm at the gun show. Why don't you review the Reagen tax cuts and so what came about.

    Edit: Bart you beat me to it...
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  15. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    The one in DFW?
     
  16. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Nope Tyler.
     
  17. Cel

    Cel Member

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    Bart-Oh okay, thanks for clearing that up. But what about the part on how the tax revenue is spent? Is that not still true? Are we not still in a ton of debt, even more so now? TEACH ME! I like to to learn! :D I just don't have a trusting view of our .gov no matter the party affiliation.
     
  18. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    It is absolutely nothing like the mafia. The mafia is an organization built around crime, this is about breaking a law that we've decided as a society that we want, that has been tested by the courts, and that these people have had a fair trial convicting them of. We as a country very much did ask for them to show up and demand money. The people breaking the law are the browns. They have decided they will not only not follow the rules our country has decided it wants, they've said they will kill those that try to make them.

    So is there any law that should actually be enforceable or are people free to gun down anyone trying to enforce a law they don't agree with?

    In the end folks this comes down the discussions that we have over the 2nd amendment and armed revolution. Most people here seem to realize that as long as our governmental system is working as intended and we're getting a fair chance to make and change laws, challenge laws, and have to be proven guilty of breaking laws before being punished that there is no armed revolution. People don't suggest killing representatives because they don't like gun laws, they work to change them until the system becomes unfair and unjust. This is all thats going on here too. I think we spend way way too much money and our taxes are accordingly too high. That doesn't mean we can just stop paying because we don't like them. Convince other people of that too and change the laws to fix the problem. What good is our system if you don't want to use it the first time you don't get your way?
     
  19. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    Nice house. Doesn't look much like a 'compound' to me.

    Just one thing to add: Two questions have to be answered here: 1. Is the law bad/immoral/wrong/unconstitutional? 2. If yes to #1, does that give you a license to kill the people who are enforcing that law?
     
  20. FeebMaster

    FeebMaster Member

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    You're right. It's worse. If someone defends themselves from the mafia, not many people outside the mafia are going to complain

    It's the price of freedom, but I'm a reasonable man. I'll give you murder, rape, assault, and robbery. Doubt it's something the feds should be doing though.



    Meh. Don't really care one way or another.
     
  21. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I'm about to take off for a little trip, on the way I drive through a stretch of road where the speed limit goes from 55 to 50. Its obviously just an income earner. Would you support me murdering an officer for giving me a ticket there since I don't think its a just reason? How about if I don't believe that tresspassing is a crime and I'm entitled to park my car in your front yard. Can I kill someone that tries to remove me or car? Its not murder, rape, assault, or robbery, they have no right to push their laws on me. Can I stalk you? Can I threaten you harm unless you pay me? Can I kidnap your children and hold them for ransom? Can I commit white collar crimes? There's alot more than your list of 4 that you probably think we need laws about. Is there ever a point at which you think we've agreed to participate in a system of government and need to work within that system?
     
  22. Matt King

    Matt King Member

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    That's not freedom, that's anarchy. If your system was in place, people could gun down cops, if that cop gave them a speeding ticket.
     
  23. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Doesn't this tie in with the point Soybomb is making? Do we skip immediately from "It looks to me like this law is immoral/not a sensible law/unconstitutional" to "Time to start killing people" even if #1 is true?

    Yes, we are and spending more all the time currently. Most of that debt is in the form of bonds owned by institution and foreign governments. I couldn't begin to explain all the intricacies involved in that subject, so you will need to look somewhere else. CATO and Reason are both excellent sources of information on economic/debt issues.
     
  24. FeebMaster

    FeebMaster Member

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    Knock yourself out. Don't be surprised when his friends kill you, your dog, and your family though.

    If you're trespassing, you're violating the rights of the property owner. If you're being obnoxious and refusing to leave, I wouldn't blink an eye if they offed you and dumped you in a ditch somewhere, especially if you were foolish enough to try to kill them first.

    I haven't agreed to participate in any system of government. If you want to, that's your business.


    I'm not sure you can have one without the other.

    Technically, if my "system" was in place, there wouldn't be any cops to gun down.
     
  25. helpless

    helpless Member

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    Oh man! I just got to the shop and jumped on THR to see where this disscussion has gone and I see this.

    and this

    Ridiculous analogy.

    You want to use it anyway? Then make it accurately apply to the Browns situation.

    You dont agree with the ticket, you tell the cop that you are not going to pay it and that you will see him in court.

    You go to court. You tell the judge that you dont agree with the ticket and you try to state your case.

    The judge tells you that your full of it and tells you to pay the ticket anyway. You tell the judge, but judge I have a witness and photos of where the signs changed and a reasonable explanation as to why you feel that the fine is unjust. The judge tells you to shove it and that you still must pay. You walk out of the courtroom and go home.

    The Feds come to your house to collect/arrest you and you tell them that you are not going go jail for such charges because you do not believe them to be just. The Feds then storm your "compound" and kill everyone inside because you stood up to the man when you felt that you where being taken advantage of.

    I am sure you guys are going to shoot this down with a witty one liner but it does show how you analogies fall short.

    Seriously for real I have to get back to work, great discussion though I look forward to your replies.
     
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