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Ted Kennedy plus 30-30

Discussion in 'Legal' started by akodo, Nov 28, 2008.

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  1. akodo

    akodo Member

    Aug 31, 2005

    I used the search function here at THR and found this thread where there was a copy of Ted Kennedy's actual words on the floor of the senate, and also a link to where it could be found


    I cannot get that link to work, and I have had no luck phrasing a search to get his 'on the floor' comments.

    Anyone know of any other place it can be accesssed? Of anyone else better at search-fu and able to pull it up on that goverment website?

    I must also say I am a bit confused by the other thread being closed. Yes, I know it is old, but all the time people ask the same question again and again, and frequently the result is someone says 'use the search function, this has been discussed before' and then the thread is locked as well.

    Seems like a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't
  2. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

    Mar 13, 2008
    Manassas Park, VA
    Do you realize that the post is almost 5 years old? You would most likely find the page in google cache.
  3. Mountie855

    Mountie855 Member

    Jan 11, 2008
    Ted Kennedy's 30-30 comments

    Ted Kennedy's 30-30 comments


    AMENDMENT NO. 2619

    Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I understand we have a half an hour; is that correct?

    The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator is correct.

    Mr. KENNEDY. I yield myself 15 minutes.

    The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator wish to send the amendment to the desk?

    Mr. KENNEDY. I believe the amendment is at the desk.

    The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will report.

    The assistant legislative clerk read as follows:

    The Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. KENNEDY] proposes an amendment numbered 2619.

    Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that reading of the amendment be dispensed with.

    The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.

    The amendment is as follows:

    (Purpose: To expand the definition of armor piercing ammunition and to require the Attorney General to promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against body armor)
    On page 11, after line 19, add the following:


    (a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

    (1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

    (2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

    (3) by adding at the end the following:

    ``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

    ``(iv) a projectile for a centerfire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

    (b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

    ``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

    ``(2) The standards promulgated pursuant to paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or centerfire rifle from which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile.

    ``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.

    Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I mentioned that there had been a homicide in Massachusetts recently, over 18 months. It was juvenile homicide. I ask that the Record be so corrected.

    As we all know too well, the debate about gun violence has often been aggressive and polarizing with anti-gun violence advocates on one side of the debate, pro-gun advocates on the other. There are deep divisions in the country on the issue of gun safety, and the current debate on the gun immunity bill has thus far only served to highlight those divisions.

    I believe, however, that there are still some principles on which we can all agree. One principle is that we should do everything we can to protect the lives and safety of police officers who are working to protect our streets, schools, and communities.

    The amendment I am offering today is intended to close the existing loopholes in the Federal law that bans cop-killer bullets. Police officers depend on body armor for their lives. Body armor has saved thousands of police officers from death or serious injury by firearm assault. Most police officers who serve large jurisdictions wear armor at all times when on duty. Nevertheless, even with body armor, too many police officers remain vulnerable to gun violence.

    According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, every year between 50 and 80 police officers are feloniously killed in the line of duty. In 2002, firearms were used in 51 of the 56 murders of police officers. In those shootings, 34 of the officers were wearing body armor at the time of their deaths. From 1992 to 2002, at least 20 police officers were killed after bullets penetrated their armor vests and entered their upper torso.

    Some gun organizations have argued that cop-killer bullets are a myth. The families of these slain police officers know better. In fact, we know that armor-piercing ammunition is not a myth because it is openly and notoriously marketed and sold by gun dealers.

    I direct my colleagues' attention to the Web site of Hi-Vel, Incorporated, a self-described exotic products distributor and manufacturer in Delta, UT. You can access its online catalog on the Internet right now. Hi-Vel's catalog lists an entry for armor-piercing ammunition. On that page you will find a listing for armor-piercing bullets that can penetrate metal objects. The bullets are available in packages of 10 for $9.95 each. Hi-Vel carries armor-piercing bullets for both the .223 caliber rifles such as the Bushmaster sniper rifle used in the Washington area attacks in October 2002, and the 7.62 caliber assault weapons. Over the past 10 years, these two caliber weapons were responsible for the deaths of 14 of the 20 law enforcement officers killed by ammunition that penetrated body armor.

    In a recent report, the ATF identified three, .223 and the 7.62 caliber rifles, as the ones most frequently encountered by police officers. These high-capacity rifles, the ATF wrote, pose an enhanced threat to law enforcement, in part because of their ability to expel particles at velocities that are capable of penetrating the type of soft body armor typically worn by law enforcement officers.

    Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

    It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America. Armor-piercing ammunition for rifles and assault weapons is virtually unregulated in the United States. A Federal license is not required to sell such ammunition unless firearms are sold as well. Anyone over the age of 18 may purchase this ammunition without a background check. There is no Federal minimum age of possession. Purchases may be made over the counter, by mail order, by fax, by Internet, and there is

    [Page: S1635] GPO's PDF
    no Federal requirement that dealers retain sales records.
    In 1999, investigators for the General Accounting Office went undercover to assess the availability of .50 caliber armor-piercing ammunition. Purchasing cop-killer bullets, it turned out, is only slightly more difficult than buying a lottery ticket or a gallon of milk. Dealers in Delaware, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia informed the investigators that the purchase of these kinds of ammunition is subject to no Federal, State, or local restrictions. Dealers in Alaska, Nebraska, and Oregon who advertised over the Internet told an undercover agent that he could buy the ammunition in a matter of minutes, even after he said he wanted the bullets shipped to Washington, DC, and needed them to pierce an armored limousine or theoretically take down a helicopter. Talk about homeland security.

    In a single year, over 100,000 rounds of military surplus armor-piercing ammunition were sold to civilians in the United States. In addition, the gun manufacturer, Smith & Wesson, recently introduced a powerful new revolver, the .500 magnum, 4 1/2 pounds, 15 inches long, that clearly has the capability of piercing body armor using ammunition allowed under the current law.

    The publication, Gun Week, reviewed the new weapon with enthusiasm: ``Behold the magic, feel the power,'' it wrote.

    Many of our leaders will buy the Smith & Wesson .500 Magnum for the same reason that Edmund Hillary climbed Mt. Everest: Because it is there.

    Current Federal law bans certain armor-piercing ammunition for handguns. It establishes a content-based standard. It covers ammunition that is, first of all, constructed from tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium, copper, or depleted uranium or, secondly, larger than .22 caliber with a jacket that weighs no more than 25 percent of the total weight of the bullet.

    However, there are no restrictions on ammunition that may be manufactured from other materials but can still penetrate body armor. Even more important, there are no restrictions on armor-piercing ammunition used in rifles and assault weapons. Armor-piercing ammunition has no purpose other than penetrating bulletproof vests. It is of no use for hunting or self-defense. Such armor-piercing ammunition has no place in our society--none.

    Armor-piercing bullets that sidestep the Federal ban, such as that advertised on Hi-Vel's Web site, put the lives of American citizens and those sworn to defend American citizens in jeopardy every single day. We know the terrorists are now exploiting the weaknesses and loopholes in our gun laws. The terrorists training manual discovered by American soldiers in Afghanistan in 2001 advised al-Qaida operatives to buy assault weapons in the United States and use them against us.

    Terrorists are bent on exploiting weaknesses in our gun laws. Just think of what a terrorist could do with a sniper rifle and only a moderate supply of armor-piercing ammunition.

    My amendment amends the Federal ban on cop-killer bullets to include a performance standard and extends the ban on centerfire rifles, which include the sniper rifles and assault weapons responsible for the deaths of 17 police officers whose body armor was penetrated by this ammunition.

    My amendment will not apply to ammunition that is now routinely used in hunting rifles or other centerfire rifles. To the contrary, it only covers ammunition that is designed or marketed as having armor-piercing capability. That is it--designed or marketed as having armor-piercing capability, such as armor-piercing ammunition that is now advertised on the Hi-Vel Web site.

    Bullets that are designed or marketed to be armor piercing have no place in our society. Ducks, deer, and other wildlife do not wear body armor. Police officers do. We should not let another day pass without plugging the loopholes in the Federal law that bans cop-killer bullets.

    This is an issue on which mainstream gun owners and gun safety advocates can agree. I urge my colleagues to vote in support of this amendment.

    I reserve the remainder of my time.
  4. akodo

    akodo Member

    Aug 31, 2005
    it may be 5 years old, but it CLEARLY illustrates that Kennedy (and other senators who voted with him on that amendment) are INDEED after your deer hunting rifle.

    Until everyone who voted for that amendment is out of office, we need to keep bring up to hunters that their 30-30 deer rifle was demonized by name as an armor piercing cop killing demon machine that no civilian should be allowed to own
  5. akodo

    akodo Member

    Aug 31, 2005
    thanks mountie

    however, my desire is to be able to point to a .gov locaiton where that same info can be found.

    I threw the fact that someone on the opposing side liked to 'huffington post' as the blind leading the blind, as a very biased source.

    they will of course view anything found on THR as 'biased' as well.
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